Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

It's time to udpate the beginner forum FAQ and we're looking for feedback on what should go in it and any good threads that should be linked in it.

One place to check out is the beginner poker wiki. I think it should definitely be linked, and I think that it could serve as a template for our FAQ here.

Raze's pooh bah post is a good story of working your way up and worth a link.

Some thinking points...
-What beginner questions did you have when you started that should be addressed in a FAQ?
-What questions pop up repeatedly that need to be addressed in a FAQ(What do the numbers xx/xx/xx mean? for example)?
-Have you read any posts here that have really helped you in the beginning stages of the game(please provide link)?

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

Everyone always asks how to make a graph...

Someone should explain pokergrapher:
http://overcards.com/wiki/moin.cgi/PokerGrapher

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

I was looking for agood list of abbreviations used here. The link on the left is kind of weak; I know that there is another list of abbreviations - anybody gat a link to it?

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

This is a useful linky dealing with calculating outs.
http://www.tightpoker.com/poker_odds.html

This was also posted in a thread about the likely hood of a certain hand winning against another, and some posted up a template for it and i used a calculator to fill it in.

Pair over pair (e.g. AA vs 77) - 81% vs 18%

Pair vs. two undercards-e.g.AA(85%) vs J7o(14%),AA(81%) vs QJs(18%),AA(83%) vs JTo(16%),AA(88%) vs KQo(12%)

Pair vs. two overcards e.g - JJ(57%) vs AQo(43%), JJ(54%) vs AQs(45%),

Pair vs. on undercard and one overcard- e.g. JJ(69%) vs A9s(31%),JJ(72%) vs A9o(28%)

Pair vs. same card and one undercard - e.g. JJ(90%) vs J7o(10%)

Same overcard vs. different undercard - (e.g. Ajo(69) vs A7o(23%)

Same undercard vs. different overcard - e.gAJo(74%) vs KJo(25%),

Two overcards vs. two undercards - e.g. AJo(64%) vs 97o(36%)

One overcard and one undercard vs. two middle cards - e.g. A7(57%) vs KJ(42%)



It might be too big to post in a sticky, so maybe give a link to a pokerstove or something similiar.

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

I like this idea of a new FAQ.

if I had my way I'd put the answer to "what does x/y/z?" mean at the front and center because that seems to be the #1 repeat question and putting it half way down a FAQ may cause it to get missed when a noob opens an like and does like a 2 second scan of the content.

naturaly Im limit-biased but a link to the Micro-Limit FAQ would be good and also a direct link to the MicroLimit Wiki that can be found in there (because people can be lazy or just want things spoonfed).

I havent really checked out many of the FAQs/stickies from other forums but there most be some good ones out there for NL cash and tourneys etc. I wouldnt link to them all but perhaps a collection of links of the best ones that cover the various aspects of 2+2 would be goot.


Also as a past organiser of Session Reviews I'll be neglecting my Session-Review-A-Pimping duties if I failed to mention that they are a great tool for people to get better so they may deserve at least a passing mention in said beginners FAQ. NL FR are also running reviews now so they cater for more than just the limit crowd at the moment.

finally, I'd just like to mention some issues of protocol when posting that could be addressed if not already in the wikis etc
1. post in the right forum
2. use a proper converter
3. cut the action at a decision point
4. give reads, or at least say you dont have any
5. dont post results or give away hands
(these are the standard lines that get rolled out in the limit micros to new posters)

2c

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

1) How to use Poker Tracker and interpret their numbers (means and meanings, not to be confused, by that I mean Poker Tracker averages and meaning of VPIP, PFR, ect.)

2) How to post a hand and get the converter set up correctly

3) Tip threads for newbies (Otto had one in his opening statement,
one by QTip "To the New, Aspiring Player
#3812872 - 10/30/05 01:31 ,
HouseCalls 1000th post 1000th post - What I (should) Have learned in the Micros (tl;dr)

4) In depth discussion of pot odds (besides poker tracker number interpretation this is a very common question)

5) Beginners bankroll discussion on LHE and NLH (althought this is technically a Theory topic is deserves discussion here)

6) Beginners books and then some advanced beginners books to focus on. If I could recommend a few they would be SSH, Winning in Low Limit HE, ToP, HEFAP, King Yao and Odds.

That's all...I think [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

[ QUOTE ]
I was looking for agood list of abbreviations used here. The link on the left is kind of weak; I know that there is another list of abbreviations - anybody gat a link to it?

[/ QUOTE ]

There are so many 2+2 specific acronyms that we may need to make a new list.

Wikipedia has a decent list of poker terms (not acronyms) here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_poker_terms

Among the topics that need to be covered:

1. Bankroll and variance: Suggest linking appropriate pzhon and BruceZ posts such as

Derivation of the bankroll equation

Also link an online bankroll calculator and a results simulator. Here are some examples:

http://www.castrovalva.com/~la/bank.htm

http://support3.com/poker/bankroll/

http://www.castrovalva.com/~la/win.htm

2. Software: Some basic info on PT and related programs. Link to hand equity calculators. Include a reference to the software forum, where new stuff is getting cooked up all the time.

3. Books/DVDs: not sure if this topic would be allowed since it could be interpreted as an endorsement by 2+2.

4. Odds: Link to a good odds chart. I recommend Lostwages' chart, which is here

http://home.houston.rr.com/texasholdempoker/odds.htm

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

Being new here, I agree with a list of acronym and poker term definitions. I've figured most of them out (the acronyms), but still not sure on a few.

Some in depth explanations of pot odds, implied odds, EV, etc. would be nice too, I've noticed a lot of repeat questions on these and I've only been here a month [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img].

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

[ QUOTE ]
Being new here, I agree with a list of acronym and poker term definitions. I've figured most of them out (the acronyms), but still not sure on a few.

Some in depth explanations of pot odds, implied odds, EV, etc. would be nice too, I've noticed a lot of repeat questions on these and I've only been here a month [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img].

[/ QUOTE ]

I would suggest that we use the content found at the Poker Wiki as a starting point for many of the answers to questions like these, since they have mostly been answered there already.

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

The wiki is very well done - thanks to the guys who put it up(I think your were involved in that Sheridan?). I'd like to copy some of the information and put right into the FAQ since I think we should make it as easy as possible to find the answers to the basic questions that people have.

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

Good input googleit. A couple of things that come to mind and I would like to hear what others have to say...



[ QUOTE ]
1) How to use Poker Tracker and interpret their numbers

[/ QUOTE ]

The "what does ##/##/## mean" question is one that definitely must get addressed in a FAQ. Do we need to include how to use PT/assessing your data or can we just refer players to other links since there are some good posts out there? My belief is that these two are beyond the scope of a beginners forum.

[ QUOTE ]
3) Tip threads for newbies

[/ QUOTE ]
Qtip's and House's post are both excellent. The microlimit library has lots of good posts - both of those included - and is worth a link.


[ QUOTE ]
4) In depth discussion of pot odds

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think the FAQ should have too much in depth, but I would like feedback on this. To me, a basic explanation of topics with links to deeper explanations seems more appropriate for the beginner forum.


[ QUOTE ]
6) Beginners books and then some advanced beginners books to focus on.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think a progressive reading list is a great idea. Anybody want to work one up for limit and one for nl?

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

[ QUOTE ]
There are so many 2+2 specific acronyms that we may need to make a new list.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe we should start a new thread for abbreviations and then link to it from the FAQ?

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
6) Beginners books and then some advanced beginners books to focus on.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think a progressive reading list is a great idea. Anybody want to work one up for limit and one for nl?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not trying to be a naysayer or a wet blanket, I just want to point something out about this.

If you include non-2+2 books on this reading list, you're going to get blowback from Mason. The point in the past is that he doesn't want 2+2 to appear to be condoning information in books from other publishers. His position has been that the stickies and FAQs here represent "official" 2+2 positions, and he doesn't want to vouch for books from other publishers.

From his perspective, it makes sense. From the perspective of a "community" it doesn't. However, he owns this community, like it or not.

Again, I don't mean to be a naysayer, I'm just giving you my experience with this. Perhaps his position has changed.

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

Are tips from former 2+2ers allowed? If so, I'd recommend Ed Miller's "7 Easy Steps to No-Limit Hold’em Success" available at http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/c...r-made-simple/ .

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

Sheridancat - I was afraid that would be an issue. Perhaps we can work something up with just the 2p2 books and then link to the wiki list of books.

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

I definately do not want any conflict of interest with 2+2 and non 2+2 information, books and strategy. If we are refering to the King Yao book, I just think it's a good intermediate book for in depth reading on odds.

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

Digging deeper and deeper into 2+2 and found a Quiz Compilation by Loyal Guard.

LINK=
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...age=0&vc=1

Quiz Compilation
#4959402 - 03/05/06 04:58

I haven't gone through all of them yet but they definately got me thinking (multiple street thinking)

What do you guys think? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

That's another great thread. Somehow I missed that one in my days in the micros; I just bumped it in the there.

There are so many great threads here but no way to include them all. Nor do I think we should. People like you who are hungry for the information will do the research to find it. There are always people that want things spoonfed to them, but I think that we do much better by encouraging people to search for in-depth information on their own.

However, I don't want to discourage you from keeping the links coming.

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

Here I go again, sounding like an old curmudgeon, but I have to point something out. Remember that threads roll into the archive over time, so if we include links to threads, we're going to have to pay close attention to when those links disappear and should be pointed to the archive server.

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

You're not a curmudgeon, you're the voice of reason...

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

OK - there is a bunch of useful stuff on abbreviations and jargon in the MSN sticky that you might be able to copy. Additionally - AJmargarine (sp?), one of the SSN forum mods, has a tread posted somewhere with all sorts of jargon type things in there. You might pm him/her and ask for the link.

Lucky

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

[ QUOTE ]
His position has been that the stickies and FAQs here represent "official" 2+2 positions, and he doesn't want to vouch for books from other publishers.

[/ QUOTE ]

So just link to threads in the Books forum where beginner books and sequences and relative merits are discussed. There's enough of them.

Also, I would be willing to help write or edit any part of the FAQ. I think the Beginners forum can be an integral and great part of the 2+2 community, to welcome and incorporate new players and new members alike, and would be happy to devote some time and energy toward that goal.

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

Heres a link to some abbreviations from the MSNL sticky.


http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...Number=5988672

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

[ QUOTE ]

So just link to threads in the Books forum where beginner books and sequences and relative merits are discussed. There's enough of them.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is a recommended reading list. By definition you'll be making a judgement that it should be included. I'm not understanding how linking to a thread makes it not a recommendation. That was the point of Mason's objection in the past.

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

What is Pot Equity?

Pot equity is your percentage chance of winning the pot at any given point in a hand. That percentage is the amount of equity you have in the pot or how much of the pot "belongs to you".

Here's a Texas Hold 'em example. You hold AsAh and you have a single opponent with what could be any hand. Your pot equity against a random hand is about 85%, meaning that if you both pushed all-in and the hand went to the showdown you can expect to win about 85% of the time. Notice that this is for a run all the way to the river with no strategy discussion and no chance of anyone folding to scare cards. The effect is the same as if both players agreed to check all the way. Pot equity does not tell you anything about numbers of bets you can expect to win.

You're not always up against a random hand, of course. If my opponent calls my raise with my AsAh above, I can start to put her on some hands which will eat away a bit at my pot equity.

You probably won't be figuring pot equity at the table. You'll mostly be figuring it after the fact when you wonder how good your AKs was against someone's ATo (answer 75%). Use a tool such as PokerStove for help in figuring your pot equity.

Pot equity has some use at the table. Primarily it lets you know how much of the pot "belongs to you," as mentioned above. When you know your equity, you can compare it to your "fair share" which is just the pot size divided by the number of people in the hand. So, when you start a hand with pocket aces and have three opponents, you know that your fair share is about 25% but your pot equity is around 85%. Therefore, all bets that go into the pot earn you more than your fair share. This is especially useful when you're trying to determine whether to check/call vs. bet/raise with a flush draw. If you have many players in, your pot equity (the chance you'll win the hand, which is directly related to you making the flush) vs. your fair share may warrant a bet/raise rather than a check/call. That is, every bet you put in and get called is, theoretically, extra money for you when your pot equity is higher than your fair share.

What is Pot Odds?

Pot odds are quite simply the odds offered by the pot, that is, the ratio of money you will win if you win the pot compared to the amount you would have to bet to remain in the pot.

For instance, after the turn in hold'em there are 7 big bets in the pot when the betting gets to you. You have four cards to the nut flush. You have to put in 1 bet to continue, so we say the pot is giving you 7:1 (pronounced "7 to 1") odds. Compare that to your approximately 4:1 chance to make your flush on the next card. Since your chance of making the flush is better than the odds being given by the pot, you should call. What if there had been very little betting and there were only 3 big bets in the pot when the action got to you? The pot would be giving you 3:1 odds versus 4:1 to make your flush. Your odds are not better than the pot odds, thus the correct action is to fold.

The same calculations can help you decide if you should call after all the cards are out. Instead of comparing the pot odds to the odds of making your hand you have to compare the pot odds to the odds that your hand is good.

What are Implied Odds

Implied odds are odds taking into account bets you will win on future rounds if you hit your hand.

For instance, the odds against making your hand might be 7.5:1 against with immediate pot odds (expressed odds) of 4.5:1. However, if you believe your opponents will call you down or allow you to sneak in a checkraise, you can count those bets in the current size of the pot to establish whether a play is correct or not.

Whereas implied odds are important to consider in all forms of poker, they take on special significance in big-bet games such as no-limit hold'em. It's not an exaggeration to say that winning at large-stack no-limit depends on the implied odds derived from getting poor opponents to pay off your monster hands. For example, if you play a highly speculative hand such as a small pair or connectors, you may well be willing to pay "too much" (judging by limit hold'em standards) to see a flop. When you do hit, if your opponents will pay off most or all of their stacks, then you're justified in taking a gamble with positive expected value.

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

There's usually a "How do I build a table" post about once a month. A list of posts or external links would be nice.

This thread has a lot of those links.

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

Otts,, good job.

For beginners that click on the FAQ link you need to have a category in BOLD near the top that states:

DO NOT SIGN UP TO PLAY ONLINE UNTIL YOU READ:

then post a few links outlining bonii and rakeback.

Absolutely essential that noobs make an informed decision in regards to the importance of the two.

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

How do i add favourite topics to my control panel?

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

Here is a recent thread discussing that we can't have recommended reading list.

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

I think it's safe to recommend that people here start with GSIH. Then HOH 1 & 2 for NL and SSHE/HEPFAP for limit. When they've read those they should be able to determine where to go from there with their reading.

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

[ QUOTE ]

For beginners that click on the FAQ link you need to have a category in BOLD near the top that states:

DO NOT SIGN UP TO PLAY ONLINE UNTIL YOU READ:

then post a few links outlining bonii and rakeback.

Absolutely essential that noobs make an informed decision in regards to the importance of the two.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that these two can have a huge influence on bankroll building and are important. Is recommending this within the scope of the beginners forum though? Bobbyi, care to weigh in?

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

A couple of general ideas:

1) It should be in the FAQ that because this is a place for beginners, we treat posters differently here than may be normal in other forums. A little more gently.

2) Traffic has increased, so we should encourage more experienced posters to come by this forum and answer questions every once in a while. This would help ensure that questions get good answers.

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

Great suggestions, uDevil.

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

PLEASE [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] Someone point me in the direction of the thread that discusses what x/y/z (a) means!!! You have all talked about it in this forum, but only in that you know us n00bs keep asking about it!!! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Please also tell me if I can survive without actually USING PokerTracker myself - I started with a bankroll of LESS than the cost of the software, and don't really intend on making this a full time profession. I'm here to have "fun" and try to make a small amount of money while I'm at it (although to not lose too much is a much more important consideration personally).

Edit: Sorry about the thread hijack, I just thought it would be RUDE to start a new "what does x/y/z mean?" thread.

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

[ QUOTE ]
PLEASE [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] Someone point me in the direction of the thread that discusses what x/y/z (a) means!!! You have all talked about it in this forum, but only in that you know us n00bs keep asking about it!!! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]


[/ QUOTE ]

*sigh*

Usually,

x is the percentage of time you "voluntarily put money in pot" (VP$IP)

y is preflop raise percentage (pfr%)

z is post flop aggression factor (AF)

These are PokerTracker stats. You can find out all about it at http://www.pokertracker.com

[ QUOTE ]
Please also tell me if I can survive without actually USING PokerTracker myself....

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course. Having the stats in front of you is especially helpful when multitabling, but if you play one table, pay attention, and take notes, you can probably do about as well without it as with it.

It can also help you analyze your own game, but I don't think most people exploit its capabilities very well.

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

Well it seems like we've got some pretty good suggestions here and that they've slowed down coming in. I'll work this up over the next week and then get a few of the regulars to proof it.

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

I think that all beginners should start with how to use the search function by Pokey. In fact I think this should be stickied in most of the forums.

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

[ QUOTE ]
1) How to use Poker Tracker and interpret their numbers (means and meanings, not to be confused, by that I mean Poker Tracker averages and meaning of VPIP, PFR, ect.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I've answered a ton of PT-related questions in SSLHE over the years, and I'd be willing to take a shot at writing a "definitive" what X means & what to do with Y post. Can't give any promises about when it'll be done, tho.

Speaking of, a link to CallMeIshmael's compiled small stakes limit PT stats thread would likely be helpful. I'm not sure if anyone has done this for NL or not.

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

I'm a complete noob to poker - played with mates that convinced me to get cleared out at a tourney and got rolled into online. I've got to say: This place is awesome! I've gone from having no clue about the abbrevs to getting loads of really good tips on where to go from here - i may just spend this insomniac night reading the poker wiki and looking at these trackers. I do have one question: is there any preferred online room? or is it much of a muchness? (i've had a bit to drink so i should probably stop writing and start reading more!!) cheers! b

Re: Suggestions/discussion of new FAQ for forum
 

How to use the search???
Don't know if this has been mentioned.