My Mom and Judaism
 

Until I was about fourteen, I attended synagogue a couple times a month because my mom forced me. I always found it very boring (two hours of sitting, standing, and chanting), and while I agree with many of Judaism's basic tenets, I don't feel the urge or requirement to go and show devotion. After my Bar Mitzvah, when many kids my age kept going of their own volition, I stopped altogether. This aggravated my mom but she didn't do anything about it other than make subtle quips as she was going out the door to synagogue. I, of course, ignored them and went on watching my saturday morning cartoons.

A couple years later I was going through the standard sixteen year-old emo/atheism stage where I told anyone and everyone about my newfound godlessness and informed them of their ignorance for believing otherwise. When I told my mom, she reacted in a manner far from what I expected, and said the main reason she had pushed me so hard to go to services every other weekend, and Hebrew school twice a week, was to gain a sense of community, not necessarily to be a pious Jew. I found this a little ironic, considering I never made any close friends there and found many of the regulars of all ages to be pretentious and self-righteous, if not downright distasteful.

In addition, my mom seems to be selectively overzealous about matters of conservative Judaism. She was part of a group of subversive synagoguers that got our rabbi ousted for marrying a lesbian couple under a chuppah. Also, she keeps "half kosher," which makes no sense at all to me. Why would you just eat pork "sometimes" and mix meat and milk if it were to inconvenience you otherwise? It seems blatantly hypocritical. In addition, she is a convert from Christianity (she converted when she met my dad, who she has since divorced). Why would you convert only to disobey the laws of the Torah?

Thinking about all of this lately, I think it has more to do with my mom's pride than anything else. Why did she have me Bar Mitzvah'd despite my opposition to the matter? Why does she continue to send me synagogue newsletters?

Not sure exactly what I am asking here, mainly just wanted to put it out there because I am confused about it. My mom is a very intelligent woman, successful lawyer and real estate agent, and yet she seems so completely off base on what's important in religion. If anything, these experiences have led me to believe that if I ever want to practice religion seriously, I will do so on my own, and not within a large, organized populace.

Have I been spoiled by bad experience? Is my mom not as absurd as I think?

I'm not looking for any concrete answers or anything, I am just very perplexed by the whole situation and felt like putting it out there. Maybe others can chime in with stories about parents being hypocritical or something...

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

I'm not Jewish, so take my statements with a lot of skepticism. Your mother is not absurd at all. Judaism is more than just a religion. It's a culture and ethnic group (Nation?) with an incredible history. No other culture in the history of mankind has lasted as long. No other culture has produced so many influential people regardless of size. For example: King David, Moses, Jesus, St. Paul, Karl Marx, Einstein and lots of others. Something great must be going on within that culture. It would be a shame to lose it.

Now your mother may not be consistent, but she is making an effort. The dietary laws are something that set your culture apart from others. So maintaining them or at least trying to helps keep it alive.

As far as community goes, I believe that can be one of the best parts of any religious gathering. You may say you don't like the other people at the synagogue, but I imagine you have a lot in common with most of them. Open your mind a little bit and you might find some interesting people there.

Learning any foreign language helps you in the long run, even if it's a more or less dead one (I believe Israeli's speak Hebrew so it's not really dead). I think it would be great to be able to read some of the Biblical texts in their original language.

As far as services being boring. I think it's a good thing to go through something boring on a regular basis. Being able to do that is a valuable skill and will help you through the rest of your life. Additionally, in times of stress, ritual can be very calming. Sort of a comfort food for the mind.

Cliff Notes: Your mother is right. There is more to Judaism than believing in God.

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

if your not a Jew or have never been to synagogue, it is hard to imagine how boring it can get.

I was part of the kids that would go congregate and talk in the hallways especially when the Rabbi would speak.

What kind of synagogue is this- conservative?

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

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if your not a Jew or have never been to synagogue, it is hard to imagine how boring it can get.

I was part of the kids that would go congregate and talk in the hallways especially when the Rabbi would speak.

What kind of synagogue is this- conservative?

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't been to a Synagogue, but Church was pretty boring to me when I was a kid. But going back there in my old age has always been comforting.

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

You would be surprised how many Orthodox and Conservative Jews follow the rules only sometimes, especially when their fellow congregants are watching, yet blatently flout them at other times. For some odd reason, they don't just convert to Reform Judaism, where they could choose their level of observance and be perfectly accepted. This is probably due to the fact that they would then have to accept others doing some things they don't agree with, and God knows that people love to be judgmental about others. Another reason for a rejection of Reform is that the line of thinking that if Judaism didn't have all these rules that don't make sense, then how would Jews be able to distinguish themselves from Christians, never mind that whole Jesus thing. And people also love to use God as an excuse for their own prejudices, hence getting the rabbi bounced on the charge of marrying a lesbian couple.

I have no doubt your mom was sincere in her whole "community" effort, but people often do strange things as part of a community, behaving one way when in it and another way when away from it. It's not just restricted to Judaism.

As far as you practicing it, I can say that as non-Jew who is married to a Jew and is raising his kids Jewish, it's just a matter of finding a Reform temple that makes you comfortable. Some are a lot more liberal than others, but if you want to maintain some degree of Jewishness, that's where you'll generally find something you're comfortable with. You could also try Secular Humanistic Judaism, but they're so rare, you might have difficulty finding a congregation in your area, depending on where you live.

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

Very passive aggressive posting on shabbat... I like it [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I grew up "modern orthodox" and went to yeshivah through high school. That being said I never liked the restrictions. Never in my life was I observant, though I faked it until college.
It seems that religion for most people is about making themselves feel good, not about serving the lord (whichever one they pray to). 99.8% of the Jews I know follow SOME of the rules. The "orthodox" follow most of the rules, the "moder othodox" less, the conservative even less, and so on and so forth. Granted there are a lot of rules so it is harder to follow strictly than a religion like Christianity or Catholocisim.
From what I have seen people follow what THEY think G-d wants (regardless of what he told them in the bible they follow). People basically do what makes them feel good.

As for converting to "conservative judaism" thats always confused me, but again whatever makes people happy is fine by me, I dont judge

As far as I am concerned everyone should do what makes them happy, while not infringing upon others.

Good Shabbos,
Death Valley

"No more!
The crap rolls out your mouth again
Haven't changed, your brain is still gelatin
Little whispers circle around your head
Why don't you worry about yourself instead

Who are you? where ya been? where ya from?
Gossip burning on the tip of your tongue
You lie so much you believe yourself
Judge not lest ye be judged yourself

Holier than thou
You are
Holier than thou
You are

You know not

Before you judge me take a look at you
Can't you find something better to do
Point the finger, slow to understand
Arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand

It's not who you are it's who you know
Others lives are the basis of your own
Burn your bridges build them back with wealth
Judge not lest ye be judged yourself

Holier than thou
You are
Holier than thou
You are

You know not

Yeah who the hell are you?
Hey yo

Holier than thou
You are
Holier than thou
You are

You know not

Not"

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not Jewish, so take my statements with a lot of skepticism. Your mother is not absurd at all. Judaism is more than just a religion. It's a culture and ethnic group (Nation?) with an incredible history. No other culture in the history of mankind has lasted as long. No other culture has produced so many influential people regardless of size. For example: King David, Moses, Jesus, St. Paul, Karl Marx, Einstein and lots of others. Something great must be going on within that culture. It would be a shame to lose it.

Now your mother may not be consistent, but she is making an effort. The dietary laws are something that set your culture apart from others. So maintaining them or at least trying to helps keep it alive.

As far as community goes, I believe that can be one of the best parts of any religious gathering. You may say you don't like the other people at the synagogue, but I imagine you have a lot in common with most of them. Open your mind a little bit and you might find some interesting people there.

Learning any foreign language helps you in the long run, even if it's a more or less dead one (I believe Israeli's speak Hebrew so it's not really dead). I think it would be great to be able to read some of the Biblical texts in their original language.

As far as services being boring. I think it's a good thing to go through something boring on a regular basis. Being able to do that is a valuable skill and will help you through the rest of your life. Additionally, in times of stress, ritual can be very calming. Sort of a comfort food for the mind.

Cliff Notes: Your mother is right. There is more to Judaism than believing in God.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is there anything you can't put a positive spin on?

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

I have a lot to say to this post, so I'll respond later when I have more time. However, she made you get a Bar Mitzvah so that you would be considered a jew. If you don't have a bar mitzvah you are not jewish.

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

Awesome responses everyone.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not Jewish, so take my statements with a lot of skepticism. Your mother is not absurd at all. Judaism is more than just a religion. It's a culture and ethnic group (Nation?) with an incredible history. No other culture in the history of mankind has lasted as long. No other culture has produced so many influential people regardless of size. For example: King David, Moses, Jesus, St. Paul, Karl Marx, Einstein and lots of others. Something great must be going on within that culture. It would be a shame to lose it.

Now your mother may not be consistent, but she is making an effort. The dietary laws are something that set your culture apart from others. So maintaining them or at least trying to helps keep it alive.

As far as community goes, I believe that can be one of the best parts of any religious gathering. You may say you don't like the other people at the synagogue, but I imagine you have a lot in common with most of them. Open your mind a little bit and you might find some interesting people there.

Learning any foreign language helps you in the long run, even if it's a more or less dead one (I believe Israeli's speak Hebrew so it's not really dead). I think it would be great to be able to read some of the Biblical texts in their original language.

As far as services being boring. I think it's a good thing to go through something boring on a regular basis. Being able to do that is a valuable skill and will help you through the rest of your life. Additionally, in times of stress, ritual can be very calming. Sort of a comfort food for the mind.

Cliff Notes: Your mother is right. There is more to Judaism than believing in God.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thing is, I'm not interested in forcing myself into a community. I think it was fine for my mom to plunk me down in a group and see if I could make some friends, but once I start resisting, she shouldn't have the right to force me into it. I have met the best friends of my life in naturally occurring settings. Yes, I know Judaism is more than a religion, but when the social aspect starts to overshadow the reasons you started coming in the first place, doesn't that mean something's gone awry?

There are plenty of people keeping Judaism alive without half-assing it. I don't think they really need my mom hobbling around on her sometimes-I-just-have-a-piece-of-bacon crutches. Also, I think Kashrut is pretty outdated from what I know about it (which, admittedly, is not a lot), so if I wanted to keep kosher, I would want some justification, whereas my mom seems to follow the laws blindly.

Agreed that boredom can be soothing, but only if it's on your own terms. I don't want to wake up at 8 AM on saturday to go be bored and not be able to fall asleep.

AZK,
I hope you elaborate. For the most part, I think a Bar Mitzvah is pretty meaningless. Then again, this is coming from a guy that resented being pushed into it, and was basically going through the motions.

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

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if your not a Jew or have never been to synagogue, it is hard to imagine how boring it can get.

I was part of the kids that would go congregate and talk in the hallways especially when the Rabbi would speak.

What kind of synagogue is this- conservative?

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't been to a Synagogue, but Church was pretty boring to me when I was a kid. But going back there in my old age has always been comforting.

[/ QUOTE ]

At least its in a language you understand.

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have a lot to say to this post, so I'll respond later when I have more time. However, she made you get a Bar Mitzvah so that you would be considered a jew. If you don't have a bar mitzvah you are not jewish.

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just wanted to say this is incorrect. i have no idea where you are getting this from.

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

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I haven't been to a Synagogue, but Church was pretty boring to me when I was a kid. But going back there in my old age has always been comforting.

[/ QUOTE ]

At least its in a language you understand.

[/ QUOTE ]
You mean latin?

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

I think when your mom said she wanted to give you a sense of "community," she meant some insight into your background/religion in case you were ever curious about it, or, for that matter, if you ever wanted to rebel against it. It's just standard Jewish-mom behavior, and if she became interested in the substance of Judaism during her conversion, her over-zealousness doesn't seem surprising to me.

Are you sure her version of "half-kosher" involves occasionally eating pork? Because that is indeed weird. The people I know who half-observe Kashrut law are usually pretty consistent in terms of the types of animals they will and won't eat, but less picky than strict-Kosher people about where they eat it and things like that.

In any event, it sounds like you have major issues with your mom.

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

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She was part of a group of subversive synagoguers that got our rabbi ousted for marrying a lesbian couple under a chuppah.

[/ QUOTE ]
Conservative Jews are not nearly as homophobic as conservative Christrains, right? or is it about equal- or even more so?

Most Jews I know are gay (homosexual)!- so I guess this is what warps my perspective.

Edit: I know about 2 (live in 99 % white christian area)

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think when your mom said she wanted to give you a sense of "community," she meant some insight into your background/religion in case you were ever curious about it, or, for that matter, if you ever wanted to rebel against it. It's just standard Jewish-mom behavior, and if she became interested in the substance of Judaism during her conversion, her over-zealousness doesn't seem surprising to me.

Are you sure her version of "half-kosher" involves occasionally eating pork? Because that is indeed weird. The people I know who half-observe Kashrut law are usually pretty consistent in terms of the types of animals they will and won't eat, but less picky than strict-Kosher people about where they eat it and things like that.

In any event, it sounds like you have major issues with your mom.

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I'll admit I have issues with her, but nothing major (the things listed in this thread are, in the scheme of things,not a big deal). We get along very well on a day to day basis, and I'm not really looking to mend any burnt bridges because there aren't any that need to be mended. I love my mom deeply and not much could change that.

Yes, I have witnessed her eat pork after giving the excuse, "I'll just have a little."

You could be right about the sense of community thing. Again, I don't have much beef with the roots of Judaism itself, but the manner and environment it was presented to me in was souring.

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

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[ QUOTE ]
She was part of a group of subversive synagoguers that got our rabbi ousted for marrying a lesbian couple under a chuppah.

[/ QUOTE ]
Conservative Jews are not nearly as homophobic as conservative Christrains, right? or is it about equal- or even more so?

Most Jews I know are gay (homosexual)!- so I guess this is what warps my perspective.

Edit: I know about 2 (live in 99 % white christian area)

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure. She also has strong personal problems with one of the women, so I'm sure that played some role in her motives. Still, that was not an isolated incident and has shown other signs of homophobia.

EDIT: Misread your statement. Yes, conservative Christians are generally faaaar more homophobic than cons Jews.

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

I suggest you read Cows, Pigs, Wars, and Witches: The Riddles of Culture, by Marvin Harris. This is an anthropological look at various culture's customs and taboos. It gives a logical explanation as to how the dietary laws came to being. More importantly, it explains why maintaining those laws is still logical even though the original reasons no longer exist.

Another book you may find helpful is Jews, God and History, by Max I. Dimont. This may help you put your culture's various rituals and traditions in perspective. And hopefully give you an idea as to how important they are.

As far as your mother keeping kosher, I imagine it's pretty hard for a convert to do. On the other hand, I have Jewish and Muslim friends that get nauseous just talking about eating pork.

Lastly, (this is not a rhetorical or smart ass question) how do you think your mother should have raised you in regards to your Jewish heritage?

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

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Are you sure her version of "half-kosher" involves occasionally eating pork? Because that is indeed weird.

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I imagine this is more like the people that say they are vegetarian but still eat chicken and fish. They like the idea and philosophy of it all, but can't quite bring themselves to go all the way throught it.

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

I'm not sure anyone can truly explain dietary restiction laws in any sensible manner. There are many theories, most of them self-serving, and I even have a few ideas of my own that I've adopted from various places about why the laws exist, but even I'll admit my ideas fit into my own ideology and may bear no resemblence to reality.

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

It's funny how similar OP's situation is to mine. This seems to be a very common experience with us ex-Jews, and since I was talking with my mother about this about a week ago, I figure I will share my experience another time. I'm tired now.

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

[ QUOTE ]

Are you sure her version of "half-kosher" involves occasionally eating pork? Because that is indeed weird. The people I know who half-observe Kashrut law are usually pretty consistent in terms of the types of animals they will and won't eat, but less picky than strict-Kosher people about where they eat it and things like that.


[/ QUOTE ]

my middle sister was a strict vegan for 5 years, but ate bacon once a year on her birthday because bacon is good.

my oldest sister's family is modern orthodox (not exactly sure what that means) and they keep strict kosher in their house. but, when my sister isn't with her husband and kids and is hanging out with the rest of our non-practicing family she doesn't always follow kosher laws.

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

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Lastly, (this is not a rhetorical or smart ass question) how do you think your mother should have raised you in regards to your Jewish heritage?

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I think she should've introduced me to it and let me make my own decisions. Most of the sunday schoolers my age were as apathetic as I was, but not all of them.

The idea that religion is just a steady line from birth to old age is ridiculous. Faith gets continually drained and renewed if you are going about religion correctly. You have to ask tough, introspective questions and be honest with yourself. Religious teachings are sometimes murky, but that's part of why they can be so extrapolable to modern times, I think.

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

[ QUOTE ]

my middle sister was a strict vegan for 5 years, but ate bacon once a year on her birthday because bacon is good.

my oldest sister's family is modern orthodox (not exactly sure what that means) and they keep strict kosher in their house. but, when my sister isn't with her husband and kids and is hanging out with the rest of our non-practicing family she doesn't always follow kosher laws.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know you or your sister, but I find this unbelievably aggravating.

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

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[ QUOTE ]

my middle sister was a strict vegan for 5 years, but ate bacon once a year on her birthday because bacon is good.

my oldest sister's family is modern orthodox (not exactly sure what that means) and they keep strict kosher in their house. but, when my sister isn't with her husband and kids and is hanging out with the rest of our non-practicing family she doesn't always follow kosher laws.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know you or your sister, but I find this unbelievably aggravating.

[/ QUOTE ]

what exactly aggravates you about this? seems strange to me that eating habits of strangers can get you worked up.

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

my middle sister was a strict vegan for 5 years, but ate bacon once a year on her birthday because bacon is good.

my oldest sister's family is modern orthodox (not exactly sure what that means) and they keep strict kosher in their house. but, when my sister isn't with her husband and kids and is hanging out with the rest of our non-practicing family she doesn't always follow kosher laws.

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I don't know you or your sister, but I find this unbelievably aggravating.

[/ QUOTE ]

what exactly aggravates you about this? seems strange to me that eating habits of strangers can get you worked up.

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Because it's the same thing my mom does. It's conscious hypocrisy. If you believe in something enough to follow it 364 days a year, why would you give in on the 365th? Nobody ever says "I'm celibate, except for my annual trip to the Vegas whorehouses."

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

For many people, the spirit of the law is more important than the word of the law. I'm Jewish, I pick and choose which traditions I follow and observe many of them in ways that would be considered inadequate by many (like I eat corn products during Passover even though I'm Ashkenazi). I don't feel this detracts from my observance of the holiday because the act of sacraficing something during the week of Passover in order to observe the holiday is what matters to me.

The reality is that many of the rules were written thousands of years ago. I'm sure in year 7000, if there's still a USA, they won't be following the same constitution we're following now, word for word. That doesn't make the hypocrits. It means they've adapted. Hopefully they'd still have many of the same fundamental beliefs about freedom of religion, speech, press, etc. But they might do things very differently to accomplish the same ideals.

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

[ QUOTE ]
For many people, the spirit of the law is more important than the word of the law. I'm Jewish, I pick and choose which traditions I follow and observe many of them in ways that would be considered inadequate by many (like I eat corn products during Passover even though I'm Ashkenazi). I don't feel this detracts from my observance of the holiday because the act of sacraficing something during the week of Passover in order to observe the holiday is what matters to me.

The reality is that many of the rules were written thousands of years ago. I'm sure in year 7000, if there's still a USA, they won't be following the same constitution we're following now, word for word. That doesn't make the hypocrits. It means they've adapted. Hopefully they'd still have many of the same fundamental beliefs about freedom of religion, speech, press, etc. But they might do things very differently to accomplish the same ideals.

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That is the irony of religion, you are comparing the Torah which I assume you believe was written by G-d to a document written by a bunch of politicians. Furthermore If you believe G-d worte the Torah, do you really think he couldnt see what was to take place in the future and that you have to adapt its interpretation to fit your lifestyle? In fact it says you souldnt adapt, rather yo9u should let the rabbis who have studied a lot more decide how things are best interpreted to fit with our times

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

If it were me telling the story I would be able to copy and paste the first two paragraphs

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

[ QUOTE ]
For many people, the spirit of the law is more important than the word of the law. I'm Jewish, I pick and choose which traditions I follow and observe many of them in ways that would be considered inadequate by many (like I eat corn products during Passover even though I'm Ashkenazi). I don't feel this detracts from my observance of the holiday because the act of sacraficing something during the week of Passover in order to observe the holiday is what matters to me.

The reality is that many of the rules were written thousands of years ago. I'm sure in year 7000, if there's still a USA, they won't be following the same constitution we're following now, word for word. That doesn't make the hypocrits. It means they've adapted. Hopefully they'd still have many of the same fundamental beliefs about freedom of religion, speech, press, etc. But they might do things very differently to accomplish the same ideals.

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I agree with this, but think it is separate from the vegan/kosher argument.


@Death Valley,

Well said.

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

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[ QUOTE ]

my middle sister was a strict vegan for 5 years, but ate bacon once a year on her birthday because bacon is good.

my oldest sister's family is modern orthodox (not exactly sure what that means) and they keep strict kosher in their house. but, when my sister isn't with her husband and kids and is hanging out with the rest of our non-practicing family she doesn't always follow kosher laws.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know you or your sister, but I find this unbelievably aggravating.

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I dont find it aggravating, I find it ridiculous. If you are restricting yourself from certian things due to religious practices, fine, I can understand that. But to arbitrarily restrict yourself from things for no real reason, only to "treat" yourself once a year is just crazy imo.

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

my middle sister was a strict vegan for 5 years, but ate bacon once a year on her birthday because bacon is good.

my oldest sister's family is modern orthodox (not exactly sure what that means) and they keep strict kosher in their house. but, when my sister isn't with her husband and kids and is hanging out with the rest of our non-practicing family she doesn't always follow kosher laws.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know you or your sister, but I find this unbelievably aggravating.

[/ QUOTE ]


I dont find it aggravating, I find it ridiculous. If you are restricting yourself from certian things due to religious practices, fine, I can understand that. But to arbitrarily restrict yourself from things for no real reason, only to "treat" yourself once a year is just crazy imo.

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i agree that it is ridiculous and probably part of the reason why she is no longer vegan. but, why is religion a good reason and others arbitrary?

for the purpose of this thread i just called my sister to find out her motivations for being vegan and she said "WTF do you want to know why i was vegan 10 years ago?" but then went on to say that there were two reasons.

1. she never liked meat very much anyways
2. she was grossed out by the entire industry and didn't want to support the treatment of animals that went along with it.

so i asked how eating bacon once a year fit in with that and she said "it didn't, i just really like bacon so once a year i figured what the hell."

and i can respect a good old "what the hell, why not" every now and again.

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

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i agree that it is ridiculous and probably part of the reason why she is no longer vegan. but, why is religion a good reason and others arbitrary?




My mom does it for religion, your sister does it for whatever reason. I think they are both hypocrites.

edit: I can't fix how this looks, but the second paragraph is not quoted.

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

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Lastly, (this is not a rhetorical or smart ass question) how do you think your mother should have raised you in regards to your Jewish heritage?

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I think she should've introduced me to it and let me make my own decisions. Most of the sunday schoolers my age were as apathetic as I was, but not all of them.

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This is a catch 22 that parents have to face in a lot of different situations. If you force someone to do something, generally they will resent it and lose interest in it. On the other hand, there are a lot of things children need to learn/experience that they never would without being forced to.

My guess is that Judaism would have died out about 2000 years ago, if all Jewish parents had used your recommended methodology.

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

Religion is a good enough reason for me not to argue logic with teh person, is what I should have said.

and ya, once in awhile I respect the old "what the [censored], why not" argument....especially as it pertains to booze and coke.

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

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This is a catch 22 that parents have to face in a lot of different situations. If you force someone to do something, generally they will resent it and lose interest in it. On the other hand, there are a lot of things children need to learn/experience that they never would without being forced to.

My guess is that Judaism would have died out about 2000 years ago, if all Jewish parents had used your recommended methodology.

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I don't think this is true and if it was I wouldn't care. FWIW, I plan to study religion on my own, so maybe I will still end up a caretaker of ol' Judaism.

Re: My Mom and Judaism
 

Reform Judaism baby!