AKs - Hand Review
 

Limit: $2/$4
8 players

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, MP1 folds, <font color="#cc0000">MP2 3-bets</font>, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, <font color="#cc0000">BB caps</font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, SB calls.
<font color="blue"> BB was a 35/15/1 goon. I figured i had a good chance of being ahead of his range here so i called 2 more back to me and with the other 2 padding the pot i felt the odds were sufficient </font>

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (20SB, 5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">MP2 raises</font>, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">BB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero caps</font>, MP2 folds, BB calls.
<font color="blue"> Pot is huge and i have top pair top kicker so i cap hoping to force MP2 out </font>

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (15BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.
<font color="blue"> I raise here to try get a free show down with my nut flush draw if i dont fill it </font>

River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (21BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero caps</font>, BB calls.

So i got lucky on the river.

comments on preflop, flop and turn please?

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

*grunch*

PF: no problem calling a cap here, I think. AKs should be EV+ to play (if it isn't, what is??).

FLOP: you have TPTK and are very likely to have the best hand, unless MP2 or BB has JJ or 55. The 4 bets make this 5:1, so slightly too expensive for anyone on a heart flush draw. Seems like a good value bet.

TURN:
Not sure what to make of your raise/call. I think you have the odds to cap the turn after he three bets, and I don't think that you'll get a free showdown after he 3bet you. If you really want that free SD, you'll have to cap here.

RIVER: $$ [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

I don´t think mp2 is going anywhere whether you cap the flop or not in this gigantic pot. I think i just call the check raise 3bet. Call the turn. NH [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

Why lucky? You had TPTK on the flop. The cap was alright.
Calling on the turn is good.
River good, too.
He flopped a set Jacks or something, or maybe he had AJ didnt he ?

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

Eh, riku: MP2 folded after the cap... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

Result oriented much ?

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

After BB c/3bets the flop I'm going into call down mode (until we hit runner/runner that is). It looks like JJ, AA, or AJ. MP2 raised the flop too, so I'm not going to count on him folding to a cap very often here.

Also, even getting MP2 to fold doesn't buy us much equity if we're already behind to BB. I think we want MP2's money in the pot here.

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

I would turn passive after flop 3-bet. I think you are gonna get 3-bet on the turn almost always, so insted of showing down for 2, you'll have to pay 4BBs. But I think this way you are very unlikely to win without a diamond, or at leats a K.

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

Preflop, flop look good to me.

But when he leads the turn just call. He's shown tremendous strength and isn't slowing down. If you hit your flush on the river raise for sure, but if you don't, expect to lose (call anyway).

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

PF is good.

I lead the flop as well after BB checks, since you may be ahead and I'd hate to have MP2 check it through with KK/QQ/TT. I don't really think he would, so I guess a case could be made for checking hoping to raise his bet, but I still lead out. After BB check/3bets, I think the most obvious hands for him are AA/JJ, although if he takes weird lines post flop, you might be ahead/chopping. I'm not sure if capping the flop is the best plan, but I'd do it, especially if MP2 doesn't fold on the flop, which he probably won't since he already raised on that street.

I think I like a call better on the turn. BB's screwy flop line and leading the turn has me thinking set, although it might be weak thinking on my part.

You have the second nuts on the river, so go crazy.

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

i dont cap the flop or raise the turn.

chk/3bet = JJ

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

[ QUOTE ]
i dont cap the flop

[/ QUOTE ]
Why?
Do you think this is a case of mis applying the "play aggressively in big pots/try to force people out thereby improving your winning chances" concept?

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i dont cap the flop

[/ QUOTE ]
Why?
Do you think this is a case of mis applying the "play aggressively in big pots/try to force people out thereby improving your winning chances" concept?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes. Ask yourself what hands cap preflop and check/3-bet the entire world on that flop. Hint: you're drawing to runners an awful lot of the time. You're getting 26-2 to call the 3-bet, and you really want the third guy to stay in because you're not going to buy too many outs by capping and forcing him out.

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i dont cap the flop

[/ QUOTE ]
Why?
Do you think this is a case of mis applying the "play aggressively in big pots/try to force people out thereby improving your winning chances" concept?

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont see how any part of that concept has relevance?

this is more to do with the 'we have the worst hand' concept

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

[ QUOTE ]

this is more to do with the 'we definitely, unequivocally have the worst hand' concept

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

why can't BB be c/3betting with a big flush draw (K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]) or combo draw (Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] e.g.)? those hands don't cap preflop all the time, but they do sometimes.

either way, i don't raise the turn.

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

[ QUOTE ]
why can't BB be c/3betting with a big flush draw (K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]) or combo draw (Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] e.g.)? those hands don't cap preflop all the time, but they do sometimes.

either way, i don't raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless I have a read that BB is a monkey... I would not ever put him on a hand like that after cold capping preflop.

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=2635935
pokenum -h ad kd - jh qh -- ah jd 5h
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing Jd Ah 5h
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ad Kd 504 50.91 486 49.09 0 0.00 0.509
Qh Jh 486 49.09 504 50.91 0 0.00 0.491


http://twodimes.net/h/?z=2635934
pokenum -h ad kd - kh qh -- ah jd 5h
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing Jd Ah 5h
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ad Kd 538 54.34 444 44.85 8 0.81 0.547
Kh Qh 444 44.85 538 54.34 8 0.81 0.453


this is SAWB with a huge emphasis on WB

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

[ QUOTE ]
SAWB

[/ QUOTE ]
SAWB = ?

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

Well, if you know WAWB, try figuring out what the S is.

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

"somewhat"?

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, if you know WAWB, try figuring out what the S is.

[/ QUOTE ]
Would it not have been easier for you just to tell me????

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

yes, but people like to be clever on the internet.

i don't mind the flop play but i don't raise the turn. our hand screams "i have ak or a big pair" and his check/3bet replies that "lol@you i got you beat," seems like a set of aces or jacks to me. with all that aggression being shown, "forcing" someone out it less likely. nice river [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

[ QUOTE ]
<font color="blue"> I raise here to try get a free show down with my nut flush draw if i dont fill it </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh. Free showdown raise when the other guy is never ever ever folding is a spew.

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, if you know WAWB, try figuring out what the S is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seldom ahead? Sinking alarmingly? Send assistance?

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

[ QUOTE ]
Limit: $2/$4
8 players

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, MP1 folds, <font color="#cc0000">MP2 3-bets</font>, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, <font color="#cc0000">BB caps</font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, SB calls.
<font color="blue"> BB was a 35/15/1 goon. I figured i had a good chance of being ahead of his range here so i called 2 more back to me and with the other 2 padding the pot i felt the odds were sufficient </font>

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (20SB, 5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">MP2 raises</font>, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">BB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero caps</font>, MP2 folds, BB calls.
<font color="blue"> Pot is huge and i have top pair top kicker so i cap hoping to force MP2 out </font>

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (15BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.
<font color="blue"> I raise here to try get a free show down with my nut flush draw if i dont fill it </font>

River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (21BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero caps</font>, BB calls.

So i got lucky on the river.

comments on preflop, flop and turn please?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't donk flop. Call 2 back to you. Call turn, don't raise. There's a good chance your opponent has JJ, and maybe even AA. River is perfect.

nh sir

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

Slightly Ahead. Sorry guys i thought it would be clear.

S M W = Slightly Moderately Way
A B = Ahead Behind

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

*Grunch* (always grunching)
[ QUOTE ]
I raise here to try get a free show down with my nut flush draw if i dont fill it

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is just wrong. Villain has something and it is definitely more than TPTK. He is not going to let you get away with it cheaply. Just call the turn!

(Btw: Why are you playing 2/4 FR???)

Edit: In Line with BBB, one of the stocking guys and Aaron W... okok. Im only grunching guys. LOL!

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

wow ... a non tricky player gets tricky ... and you continue

i fold the flop after BB caps PF and check 3bets flop ... AA, JJ, AK (maybe), AJ (not likely)

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

fold flop is too much, wow

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

[ QUOTE ]
fold flop is too much, wow

[/ QUOTE ]

BB is super standard player that calls with a few too many hands pre flop ... his cold cap OOP and c/3bet
is AA, JJ ... maybe, maybe AK (of 6 hands I wouldn't even give a weighted value of 1 hand) - I doubt this guy would re-raise AK as TPTK on any board

I just don't really see a point to continue in the hand, either we tied 1% of the time or crushed except for a massive suckout (maybe I could see a call down ... 5:1 from flop ... but 5 to 1 seems really thin to me)

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

[ QUOTE ]
Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (15BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.
<font color="blue"> I raise here to try get a free show down with my nut flush draw if i dont fill it </font>


[/ QUOTE ]

why are you trying for a free show down

do you think you'll ever get one here anyway?

I think we need more threads on the "Free Showdown" ... I'm a little shaky on the concept - but know this isn't a situation to apply that concept to

Free-show-down raises should generally have a chance to win the pot at that point - yes?
and should generally be with a somewhat OK but possibly marginal hand and the turn brings a card which complements your play, up to that point ...

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

Grunch

PF: Dude, you're putting way too much work in justifying an easy call. I have only seen two posts where I thought it was right to fold AK offsuit preflop against unknowns, and in both cases it was the SB facing a cap cold and some good players disagreed with me in both cases. Typically the only hands you can consider raise/folding preflop are offsuit non-pairs AJ/KQ or worse, and only if it's capped.

Flop: Cap is pretty thin; it won't just cost you an extra bet if MP2 has a monster, it costs you 3SB by forcing you to bet the turn and get raised. Plus, unless MP2 was retarded and raised this flop with KK, or he's willing to fold top pair getting 14:1 with no further raises, you have no fold equity. I'd have called the 3bet.

Turn: [ QUOTE ]
I raise here to try get a free show down with my nut flush draw if i dont fill it

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't do this. It is not a "free" showdown, in fact in the best case scenario it's a regular price showdown and in the worst case it's twice as expensive.

River: nh

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

[ QUOTE ]
Don't donk flop. Call 2 back to you. Call turn, don't raise. There's a good chance your opponent has JJ, and maybe even AA. River is perfect.

nh sir

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero didn't donk, BB capped/checked/3bet. Which now that I think about it is an argument against every postflop raise until the flush came in.

EDIT: lol, I shouldn't read threads backwards but basically everything on page 2 is right.

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

[ QUOTE ]

EDIT: lol, I shouldn't read threads backwards but basically everything on page 2 is right.

[/ QUOTE ]

Change post per page it is soo much quicker. It's only one page for me


As for the hand.
-Preflop cap is fine.
-I think I lead that flop allways but I don't think it's right. Raise/cap is spew.
-The turn raise is way over the top
-River is standard.

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

[ QUOTE ]
Grunch

PF: Dude, you're putting way too much work in justifying an easy call. I have only seen two posts where I thought it was right to fold AK offsuit preflop against unknowns, and in both cases it was the SB facing a cap cold and some good players disagreed with me in both cases. Typically the only hands you can consider raise/folding preflop are offsuit non-pairs AJ/KQ or worse, and only if it's capped.

Flop: Cap is pretty thin; it won't just cost you an extra bet if MP2 has a monster, it costs you 3SB by forcing you to bet the turn and get raised. Plus, unless MP2 was retarded and raised this flop with KK, or he's willing to fold top pair getting 14:1 with no further raises, you have no fold equity. I'd have called the 3bet.

Turn: [ QUOTE ]
I raise here to try get a free show down with my nut flush draw if i dont fill it

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't do this. It is not a "free" showdown, in fact in the best case scenario it's a regular price showdown and in the worst case it's twice as expensive.

River: nh

[/ QUOTE ]

Xhad is wise; every time I post in this forum recently I just quote him.
I thought the same thing about the preflop analysis; lol when do you open AKs and then fold?

Re: AKs - Hand Review
 

[ QUOTE ]

(Btw: Why are you playing 2/4 FR???)

[/ QUOTE ]
I dont usually play 2/4 but the games that i usually play at the site i'm at (.5/1 and/or 1/2) have dried up.
The 2/4 games are soft at the moment.
Ok i didn't cover myself in glory with this hand but 2/4 is making me money at the moment