5/10 - AK 170BB Deep - Thin riv value bet
 

Villain is 32/12/2 fish. I haven't seen him get too out of line over ~400 hands. This is the 2nd time I have seen him 3bet. Hero is running at 22/18, and I know he doesn't respect my cbets, FWIW.

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)
UTG ($891.25)
MP ($1082.75)
Hero ($1717.85)
Button ($207)
SB ($1017)
BB ($1732.80)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls $10, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $45</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls $40, <font color="#666666"> <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $190</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $145, SB folds.

Flop: ($435) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $435</font>, Hero calls $435.

Turn: ($1305) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($1305) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $350</font>

As for preflop, I would often 4bet, but this guy is not crazy preflop, and I doubt he knows what a squeeze is. I am 99.9% sure this guy never C/Rs me on the river as a bluff, so I am folding if he shoves.

Re: 5/10 - AK 170BB Deep - Thin riv value bet
 

I don't think this is that thin since you've played the hand so passively (though correct, so far). I'd bet like $650 on the river, if he's a fish i doubt he's folding QQ.

Re: 5/10 - AK 170BB Deep - Thin riv value bet
 

Make it 700 instead.

Re: 5/10 - AK 170BB Deep - Thin riv value bet
 

If he's never out of line or squeezing then I'd just fold to him pf

but given how the hand played out I don't see how a bet is thin at all, although it illustrates why AK pretty much sucks for implied odds

Re: 5/10 - AK 170BB Deep - Thin riv value bet
 

TBH, I don't think he calls a larger bet with QQ here. Villain is a weird animal, and I don't know if I have ever seen him call a largish river bet.

I may not have a good enough read on the river to make that judgement, though.

Re: 5/10 - AK 170BB Deep - Thin riv value bet
 

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it illustrates why AK pretty much sucks for implied odds

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Absolutely.

Re: 5/10 - AK 170BB Deep - Thin riv value bet
 

I like the way you played this OP, including the river bet sizing.

Re: 5/10 - AK 170BB Deep - Thin riv value bet
 

I'm not so sure, if villain is any good, your hand is face up. If you can get him to call with QQ congrats...

Re: 5/10 - AK 170BB Deep - Thin riv value bet
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not so sure, if villain is any good, your hand is face up. If you can get him to call with QQ congrats...

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that my hand is face up. Villain is definitely not good, but my line is VERY transparent, and that is why I think the bet is thin. Do you bet larger or check behind here?

Re: 5/10 - AK 170BB Deep - Thin riv value bet
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not so sure, if villain is any good, your hand is face up. If you can get him to call with QQ congrats...

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that my hand is face up. Villain is definitely not good, but my line is VERY transparent, and that is why I think the bet is thin. Do you bet larger or check behind here?

[/ QUOTE ]

As you say its pretty villain dep, I think its ok against this guy, but in general bleh.

Re: 5/10 - AK 170BB Deep - Thin riv value bet
 

I'm actually grunching this, how wierd is that...

Given your read that he is a terrible player, I very much doubt he is checking a hand twice to induce you to bet a worse hand. The river VB seems great. I'd probably bet a bit more however.

Re: 5/10 - AK 170BB Deep - Thin riv value bet
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm actually grunching this, how wierd is that...

Given your read that he is a terrible player, I very much doubt he is checking a hand twice to induce you to bet a worse hand. The river VB seems great. I'd probably bet a bit more however.

[/ QUOTE ]

in order for the bet to have value, the villain must call with something we beat here once in a while. Otherwise it is just a bluff

Re: 5/10 - AK 170BB Deep - Thin riv value bet
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm actually grunching this, how wierd is that...

Given your read that he is a terrible player, I very much doubt he is checking a hand twice to induce you to bet a worse hand. The river VB seems great. I'd probably bet a bit more however.

[/ QUOTE ]

in order for the bet to have value, the villain must call with something we beat here once in a while. Otherwise it is just a bluff

[/ QUOTE ]

This is obvious...I am not sure what you are getting at here. The point of the thread was whether or not there was value in the bet.

While this is read dependent, I will assume your vote is for checking behind.

Re: 5/10 - AK 170BB Deep - Thin riv value bet
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm actually grunching this, how wierd is that...

Given your read that he is a terrible player, I very much doubt he is checking a hand twice to induce you to bet a worse hand. The river VB seems great. I'd probably bet a bit more however.

[/ QUOTE ]

in order for the bet to have value, the villain must call with something we beat here once in a while. Otherwise it is just a bluff

[/ QUOTE ]

This is obvious...I am not sure what you are getting at here. The point of the thread was whether or not there was value in the bet.

While this is read dependent, I will assume your vote is for checking behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

nah, i misread grunch's post... I thought he was saying we should bet b/c we obv have the best hand. Bet away.

Re: 5/10 - AK 170BB Deep - Thin riv value bet
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm actually grunching this, how wierd is that...

Given your read that he is a terrible player, I very much doubt he is checking a hand twice to induce you to bet a worse hand. The river VB seems great. I'd probably bet a bit more however.

[/ QUOTE ]

in order for the bet to have value, the villain must call with something we beat here once in a while. Otherwise it is just a bluff

[/ QUOTE ]

Given reads and the fact that he checked the turn &amp; river, I think there's value on the river. This guy seems like a typical nl100 donk, and they all call with some crappy pair.

Re: 5/10 - AK 170BB Deep - Thin riv value bet
 

[ QUOTE ]
I thought he was saying we should bet b/c we obv have the best hand

[/ QUOTE ]

Not all the time,but definitly some times he calls with the 2nd best hand.

Re: 5/10 - AK 170BB Deep - Thin riv value bet
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm actually grunching this, how wierd is that...

Given your read that he is a terrible player, I very much doubt he is checking a hand twice to induce you to bet a worse hand. The river VB seems great. I'd probably bet a bit more however.

[/ QUOTE ]

in order for the bet to have value, the villain must call with something we beat here once in a while. Otherwise it is just a bluff

[/ QUOTE ]

Given reads and the fact that he checked the turn &amp; river, I think there's value on the river. This guy seems like a typical nl100 donk, and they all call with some crappy pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

yup yup, 2+2 + studying + 2am = bad reading comprehension

Re: 5/10 - AK 170BB Deep - Thin riv value bet
 

i like a little more on river, say 700ish.

Re: 5/10 - AK 170BB Deep - Thin riv value bet
 

I think only a better hand calls the $700 here or shoves on the river. With the $350 obv better hands call, but once in a while we get a worse hand to call too. I'm thinking his reraising range is very small though - AA-QQ (maybe JJ) and AK AQ.

The way the hand was played the value bet looks thin, but it doesn't look terrible. If you're making lots of thin value bets and if this hand was shown down, it may be good for shania.

Re: 5/10 - AK 170BB Deep - Thin riv value bet
 

i like $450, it would take him to be 40+/11 before i start making it 700+