25nl: A little lost with JJ
 

So here's a bit about me. Up until the UIGEA I was playing 50nl and had recently moved to 100nl. Long story short, I lost quite a bit to neteller, and pulled the rest save $800 which I left in stars, and didn't play much save the occasional tourney. A couple weeks ago I started back playing 25 nl, and was up about 8 buyins until the last 2 days, which I've dropped 5. Maybe it's variance, but I also think I'm not playing well, so time to post some hands.

Not much of a read, had about 20 hands on villain, he was 20/15/6...seemed solid but I just hadn't seen much from him. I have always disliked JJ anyway, and I'm really torn as to how to play this.

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $54
BB: $10.25
UTG: $25.20
MP: $11.95
CO: $25
<font color="black">Hero (BTN): $24.65</font>

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Hero is dealt J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 Players)
3 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $1</font>, <font color="red">SB raises to $3</font>, BB folds, Hero calls $2

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($6.25) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $4</font>, Hero ???

Re: 25nl: A little lost with JJ
 

Tough spot... Given his stats and stack sizes, I'd shove. If he calls you're going to be a coin-flip at best and drawing to 2 outs at worst. I just see this villain betting with anything here.

Interested to hear some other opinions on this one.

Re: 25nl: A little lost with JJ
 

raise to about 14-18, he may be doing this with Ax with a ace of club. If he comes over the top its a judgement call, prob a Slightly ahead, way behind situation.

Re: 25nl: A little lost with JJ
 

I'd call this and reeval.. You are likely behind at this point, QQ+, AK with a club is a small favorite against you. His 3-betting range may be a bit wider from the the sb, so let's see what he does on the turn.

Re: 25nl: A little lost with JJ
 

I disagree, given your stack size you either shove or fold flop. Without fold equity your hand has little value here.

Re: 25nl: A little lost with JJ
 

ah duh didnt see his stack size. I think this is probably a fold.

Re: 25nl: A little lost with JJ
 

[ QUOTE ]
ah duh didnt see his stack size. I think this is probably a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would definitely agree if I was in earlier position, but you don't think me opening on the button loosens his range past QQ+ and AK? I'm honestly asking, I'm really not used to how these games play yet.

Re: 25nl: A little lost with JJ
 

call, fold to further aggression is standard line. You didn't call JJ pf for set value only, you hit your undercard flop, plus added flush draw. No point in raising and turning your hand into a bluff (against QQ+). If you fold now you might aswell have folded pf

Re: 25nl: A little lost with JJ
 

[ QUOTE ]
call, fold to further aggression is standard line. You didn't call JJ pf for set value only, you hit your undercard flop, plus added flush draw. No point in raising and turning your hand into a bluff (against QQ+). If you fold now you might aswell have folded pf

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT.

Re: 25nl: A little lost with JJ
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
call, fold to further aggression is standard line. You didn't call JJ pf for set value only, you hit your undercard flop, plus added flush draw. No point in raising and turning your hand into a bluff (against QQ+). If you fold now you might aswell have folded pf

[/ QUOTE ]

QFMFT.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unknown soldier completes this thread [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
[ I undestand the irony in replying]

Re: 25nl: A little lost with JJ
 

His reraising range will probably be somewhere around 4-5. I.e. TT+, AK, AQ. If you raise him here, he will call/push with the pairs that have you crushed and fold his overs, because he just doesn't call. So you lose a lot if he has you crushed and win nothing extra if you are ahead. So just call. If another club or an overcard comes or he keeps on betting hard, you have to fold though.

Re: 25nl: A little lost with JJ
 

I call here and probs fold the turn to further pressure.

Re: 25nl: A little lost with JJ
 

Anybody else 4-bet this pf? Your opening range is obv. huge and if he's decent he knows this. Plus his 3-bet seems a little weak.

Re: 25nl: A little lost with JJ
 

Call. Hope for a blank. Bet if he checks. Get it in if he bets turn. This guy seems aggro enough for that to be okay.

Re: 25nl: A little lost with JJ
 

OP didn't say much about how he played his hands in the past. So I don't know why his opening range is obv. huge in the eyes of villain. Moreover OP said that villain gave a solid impression. So I don't think that he is reraising light. Since OP has position, I think calling is a good choice. If OP 4bets and villain pushes, his range is a) pretty narrow and b) OP loses all his positonal advantage. I think calling and looking at the flop is good.

Re: 25nl: A little lost with JJ
 

"Anybody else 4-bet this pf? Your opening range is obv. huge and if he's decent he knows this. Plus his 3-bet seems a little weak."

yup i think this might be a good idea. 4-betting solves a lot of problems postflop but u need to have a good idea of where ur opponent is at

Re: 25nl: A little lost with JJ
 

Yeah that's part of the problem, this is only the 4th orbit I've played with villain. I had a few hands on villain, but they were from a previous table. My range from the button is obviously huge, but I doubt the villain would know that after so few hands. I like the idea of 4-betting pre, and as played I think call and reassess on the turn is a good plan as well. Thanks for the help.

Re: 25nl: A little lost with JJ
 

Well, I still don't like the 4bet: if he isn't reraising lightly, but solid and aware that he is oop, his range will have you in a flip or dominated most of the time when he pushes over your 4bet. If he actually is reraising lightly, you let him get away with his sub-par hand.

Re: 25nl: A little lost with JJ
 

i'm trying to remember the last time someone 3bet me pf at stars 25nl without AA or KK. well, i guess there was this time back in february when a guy did it with QQ.

Re: 25nl: A little lost with JJ
 

Well, I had someone do it with KQ last night...and in this particular hand the guy had AKo, so it happens.

I ended up convincing myself that his range was huge and shoving the flop (not enough $ to make any other kind of raise.) He called with AsKc, so it was a straight flip. I didn't post this because of the result. I posted it because, although it worked out well enough, I thought my flop decision sucked, and I wanted to find a better way.

Re: 25nl: A little lost with JJ
 

so how did you play this hand?

Re: 25nl: A little lost with JJ
 

it's a bit close on the flop ( i weighted the hands so i took out some of the hands without clubs, but not all since he will bluff with some of those)

QQ+
TdTh,TdTs,ThTs
AQs+
KcQc
AQo+
KcQd,KcQh,KcQs,KdQc,KhQc,KsQc

you have 50% equity (we can increase it a little if we assume he never bets out with made flushes)

(i think i did that right; still practicing)

Re: 25nl: A little lost with JJ
 

so, fooling around with some math:

a) assume he never leads his made flush here (which is pretty accurate for $25nl)

b) i include less hands for AQo/AQs and KQo/KQs to weigh them less for his 3-betting range

c) range is:

QQ+
TT (3 combos)
AdKd,AhKh,AsKs
AdQd,AhQh
KhQh
AKo
AcQs,AdQs,AhQs,AsQh
KcQs,KdQs,KhQs,KsQh

d) if you shove the flop, let's be liberal and say he calls with all his pocket pairs. so, pockets are 46% of his total range and you have 25% equity against them: ($28 x .25 - .75 x $22) .46 = -$4.37

e) if you shove the flop assume he calls with all unpaired hands that contain a club. so, those are 17% of his range and you have 50% equity against them: ($28 x .50 - .50 x $22) .17 = $.51

f) if you shove flop assume he folds all unpaired hands with no club: that's 37% of his range. (+$10) .37 = $3.70

so, a shove gives you -$.14 EV. However, if he folds his pocket pairs as little as, say, 10% of the time, or you expand his range a little more to include some more AQ/KQ hands, or if he calls with AKo no clubs some % of the time, the shove likely becomes +EV. And given that our opponents play band in reraised pots often, he is likely to play incorrectly against a shove.

(i think i did that right)