Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2861930

Thoughts? I'll chime in after.


If this was posted already, feel free to delete. I didn't see it.

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

bleh, its not like steroids and HGH care what color your skin is.

I was surprised since up to this point I hadn't given much thought to there even being a race issue. I doubt whites would change their minds if Barry was white instead of black.

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

I think you would be naive to assume race doesn't have an effect in this debate.

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

Barry Bonds is awesome.

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

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I think you would be naive to assume race doesn't have an effect in this debate.

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Do you think there would be that much disparity in a poll about McGwire?

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

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Barry Bonds is awesome.

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Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

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I think you would be naive to assume race doesn't have an effect in this debate.

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Do you think there would be that much disparity in a poll about McGwire?

[/ QUOTE ]No.

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

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I think you would be naive to assume race doesn't have an effect in this debate.

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Not as much as it has to do with Barry Bonds being a complete dick head

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

My first thoughts were, "Why?" Why do we keep having racial polls like this? Aren't we trying to move forward from racism, etc.? I know it still exists, but why even do a poll like this? Why does it matter what whites and blacks think about Barry? It should matter what PEOPLE think IMO.

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

If anything I think it's reverse racism.

I think it's less white people hating Barry because he's black and more black people loving Barry because he's black.

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

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If anything I think it's reverse racism.

I think it's less white people hating Barry because he's black and more black people loving Barry because he's black.

[/ QUOTE ]Without a doubt.

Also Giants fans love him because he's a Giant (and my dad the Brooklyn fan despises him soley because he's a Giant)

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

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I think you would be naive to assume race doesn't have an effect in this debate.

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Do you think there would be that much disparity in a poll about McGwire?

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the problem with this comparison is the disparity in the way they managed their public perceptions and that McGwire isn't going to surpass a cherished record (held by an african-american I might add)


can we draw some comparison with Sosa?

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

Why people hate Barry Bonds will never make sense to me.

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

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Barry Bonds is awesome.

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super qft.

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

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I think you would be naive to assume race doesn't have an effect in this debate.

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Do you think there would be that much disparity in a poll about McGwire?

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the problem with this comparison is the disparity in the way they managed their public perceptions and that McGwire isn't going to surpass a cherished record (held by an african-american I might add)


can we draw some comparison with Sosa?

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I think it's actually critical to do a similar poll with Mark and Sammy. Let's not forget how few votes Mark got this year, and most of those voters are white.

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

Just so its out there, I am A HUGE Bonds fan.

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

I don't even know why these [censored] race things come up. The home-run record is held by a black guy already, so why the [censored] would white people use that reason as to why they dont want Bonds to break the record?

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

The assumption of this poll is that race is a factor in why people like or dislike Barry Bonds. That isn't necessarily true.

But there are reasons far more convincing than just skin color to dislike Bonds.

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

Is the black community (if such a thing exists) capable of actually NOT supporting a high profile black individual?

I'd bet Mike Tyson still has a significantly higher favorability rating among blacks than whites.

I think it's sort of a "gotta stick together" mentality.

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

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I think you would be naive to assume race doesn't have an effect in this debate.

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Do you think there would be that much disparity in a poll about McGwire?

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the problem with this comparison is the disparity in the way they managed their public perceptions and that McGwire isn't going to surpass a cherished record (held by an african-american I might add)


can we draw some comparison with Sosa?

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I said McGwire because he was white... What would comparing him to Sosa prove?

My point was that I think the racial disparity in the Bonds poll is caused more by black people not wanting to call a black person a cheater then white people being racist. I could be wrong but I think if this poll was about McGwire, there would be less racial disparity in the results.

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

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Barry Bonds is awesome.

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Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

I still suspect that if you took this same poll about McGwire, you'd see similar results, especially among the white voters.

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

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Why people hate Barry Bonds will never make sense to me.

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youre aware that the people who hate him had at one point enslaved his entire race right?

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

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youre aware that the people who hate him had at one point enslaved his entire race right?

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I'm pretty sure I'd remember doing that.

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

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I still suspect that if you took this same poll about McGwire, you'd see similar results, especially among the white voters.

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What if the poll were about Dan Marino?

Similar results?

Both were prominent BALCO clients, and both broke prominent records in major sports.....although many may not even have heard a peep about Marino being on the Conte bandwagon..that little tidbit usually gets left out of every single one of a the million previous Bonds/Steroids/Balco stories.

Of course the results wouldn't be similar......but not because Marino is white and Bonds is black....it would be because it's football, Babe Ruth never held the passing record, and you haven't been force fed by sportswriters for 20 years that Marino is a dick, but instead he is a media golden boy.

For what it's worth, this whole mess has much more to do with the sport, the record, and the baseball media's grudge against Bonds and their subsequent tainting of public opinion through one sided anecdotal stories to demonize him than it does about race.

If Bonds had been a slap happy Uncle Tom for the past 20 years and pandered to the sports media's every desires he'd be seen in a much different light.

But he did it his way instead, and they just can't stand it.

And in a sense those who loathed Barry may end up regretting their actions, in what started as a witch hunt for Bonds may have inadvertently opened a pandora's box of unintended consequences as we've seen several other athletes fail tests, been named in reports, and surely to fall like dominoes between the Grimsley Report (once it is entirely public) and the mess with the Met's clubbie, and the Will inquisition.

Through it all, several dozens if not hundreds of players will fall in the scorched earth attempts to get at Bonds....but they will never, NEVER succeed in putting the pin on their primary target.

And it kills them to realize it.

The IRS spent millions trying to pin anything on him, the Feds broke their own laws in leaking testimony as a last ditch effort to somehow get at him, and the public is fed daily anecdotal reports on how he is a monster who eats babies so as to dissuade any sympathy for him.....

...and he still goes along. Doing what he do. Playing ball, making bank...while those who hate grow increasingly frustrated in realizing that they just can't shake him.

And it's because he's Barry Bonds, and they're not.

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

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A majority of fans -- 58 percent -- think Bonds should be in the Hall of Fame.

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LOL. The second greatest hitter in the history of the MLB, and 42% think he's not an HOFer.

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Also, 78 percent of blacks think Bonds should be recognized as the home run leader, compared to 53 percent of whites.


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Am I a racist for thinking that 755 is higher than 744?

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

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Also, 78 percent of blacks think Bonds should be recognized as the home run leader, compared to 53 percent of whites.


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You think this is racially divided? What do you think public sentiment was like circa 1973, when the Hammer was creeping up on the Holy Grail, Babe Ruth himself?

Five years removed from the Civil Rights marches, you really think the predominantly white fan base was cheering with glee as the Hammer was about to eclipse an Americon icon for the most treasured mark in all of sports?

How soon we forget.

The Black desire was a helluva lot more than 78%, and the white desire was ridiculously lower than 53%..I'd be surprised if it was even a fourth of that.

Of course, you won't hear much about those times from the East coast sports print media who opined against the legitimacy of Aaron's record and it's meaning at the time (162 games vs 154...watered down pitching due to expansion, the lowered mound, the livlier ball...smaller stadiums...any sliver of an excuse they could grab at to illegitimize Aaron's efforts.).... because they would be embarrased to restate the opinions of yesteryear in today's climate, and they have slowly grown to embrace the Hammer, especially as the man they once rooted against is now the last thing protecting them from the big bad Bonds boogeyman!

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

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And in a sense those who loathed Barry may end up regretting their actions, in what started as a witch hunt for Bonds may have inadvertently opened a pandora's box of unintended consequences as we've seen several other athletes fail tests, been named in reports, and surely to fall like dominoes between the Grimsley Report (once it is entirely public) and the mess with the Met's clubbie, and the Will inquisition.

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Oh pooh pooh, people are going to have to pay for their actions. I have no sympathy for them, they made their choice; they pay the price. As a fan I'll be a little disappointed if any of MY guys are outed, but I will blame the players for it and not try and shift blame to boogeymen like the media.

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

They talked about this ad nauseum on Sports Center the other night. One thing that caught my attention, was in all the polls they listed the races as "White" and "African American". Now, clearly black people aren't ACTUALLY black, but white people aren't actually white either.. Seems to me it should either be "White" and "Black" or something like "Caucasian" and "African American". Meh.

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

I'm not Black nor White and I hate Barry Bonds. Well, I *am* a Dodger fan, so that's where my bias lies.

Seriously, I hate the guy as much as anyone, but he's innocent until proven guilty, and even if he did use the stuff before it was banned, he was playing by the rules, much like McGwire and andro during his HR chase. He surely deserves to be in the HoF unless it's been PROVEN that he cheated. I still don't want him to break Aaron's record, mainly because I think Aaron has much more class in his little pinky than in Bonds' whole body.

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

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he's innocent until proven guilty

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Only in the eyes of the justice system.

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

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he's innocent until proven guilty

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Only in the eyes of the justice system.

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True.

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

people are more likely to back people who look like they do

not exactly news

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

Hypothetical: if it were Ken Griffey Jr. who were coming up on 755 instead of Barry Bonds, do you think there'd be this kind of divide on him? (Let's assume that Griffey had the exact same unproven allegations that Bonds had.)

It seems that lots of people hate Bonds because he's a jerk, not because he's black.

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

The race card is stupid; Aaron is black also.

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

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Hypothetical: if it were Ken Griffey Jr. who were coming up on 755 instead of Barry Bonds, do you think there'd be this kind of divide on him? (Let's assume that Griffey had the exact same unproven allegations that Bonds had.)

It seems that lots of people hate Bonds because he's a jerk, not because he's black.

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Good point about Griffey. Personally, I'd be much more excited about Griffey breaking Hank's record than Bonds. Maybe that's cause I'm a big Griffey fan (even though he plays in the same division as my Stros), but I think more of that lies along the lines that he wasn't even accused for using steroids (as far as I know). Bonds can be a jerk, but can you blame him sometimes? The media hassles him way more than anyone else.

I am a bit excited to see a part of history though.

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

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Hypothetical: if it were Ken Griffey Jr. who were coming up on 755 instead of Barry Bonds, do you think there'd be this kind of divide on him? (Let's assume that Griffey had the exact same unproven allegations that Bonds had.)

It seems that lots of people hate Bonds because he's a jerk, not because he's black.

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Good point about Griffey. Personally, I'd be much more excited about Griffey breaking Hank's record than Bonds. Maybe that's cause I'm a big Griffey fan (even though he plays in the same division as my Stros), but I think more of that lies along the lines that he wasn't even accused for using steroids (as far as I know). Bonds can be a jerk, but can you blame him sometimes? The media hassles him way more than anyone else.

I am a bit excited to see a part of history though.

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The reason for the hypothetical was that in the 90s, well before Bonds was accused of being a user, he was clearly better than Griffey. Yet, just as clearly, Griffey was much more popular than Bonds and regarded by non-sabermatricians as the better baseball player.

So let's imagine that their career paths were switched. Instead of Griffey being saddled with injury problems, he was approaching 755 . . . and the one being accused of steroid use.

Do you think that:

1) the accusations against Griffey would be as constant as the accusations against Bonds?

2) that anyone would be rooting against Griffey breaking 755?

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

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Why people hate Barry Bonds will never make sense to me.

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dont know how else people can spell it out to you, but the man is a horrible, horrible person. he's a great, great baseball player, and that reputation is somewhat asterisked due to drug use (or "possible" drug use) but most hate him because he's despicable.

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

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Is the black community (if such a thing exists) capable of actually NOT supporting a high profile black individual?

I'd bet Mike Tyson still has a significantly higher favorability rating among blacks than whites.

I think it's sort of a "gotta stick together" mentality.

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black people in general like OJ simpson more then white people, and the dude is a murderer.

it's OBVIOUSLY a stick together mentality, but... you cant really blame that!!! i would too. (meaning, be more apt to support tyson/oj/etc.) but ppl like oj / bonds / tyson are bad people and shouldnt really be thought of "black" first, they should just be thought of bad humans. race should truly have nothing to do with that. (and no, bonds is nowhere near OJ in the scale of "goodness" or "badness," so i'm not really interested in the semantics of that statement)

Re: Racial poll about Barry Bonds
 

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Why people hate Barry Bonds will never make sense to me.

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youre aware that the people who hate him had at one point enslaved his entire race right?

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i dont hate german people just because at one point they committed mass genocide to "my people". (and that point was much much much more recent than slavery)

your point above is pretty dumb, pittm, and im normally a backer of you, largely bc of the GSW connection