Personality and overall attractiveness
 

I've heard countless times from girls "I don't think xyz is hot because he/she is an a-hole." I've always thought that was pretty stupid. Either you can't rationally separate physical appearance from personality or you are just too scared to honestly answer the question. Guys, for the most part, have no problem saying a girl is smoking hot even if she's a huge bitch.

However, most guys will take personality into account on the other end. For instance, if a girl is really cool/funny/whatever I think guys commonly bump up how they'd rate that girl's attractiveness.

I'm curious how big of a deal this is for you guys. One example of this is Pam on the office. She is obviously a good looking girl, but I think most people instinctively think she's way more attractive than her physical appearance would suggest because her character is just so sweet/endearing.

The video below is what made me write this post. The girl in the first minute or so is certainly not ugly by any means. She's maybe a 6 or so (THIS IS NOT THE POINT OF THE THREAD DON'T ARGUE ABOUT THIS GIRL'S 1-10 RATING), but I am REALLY attracted to her largely because she just seems really cool and fun and obviously doesn't take herself too seriously. If she starts at a 6, I'd say this little clip makes her as attractive to me as a "normal" 8.5. So she gets 2.5 points for being awesome.


Question 1: How much more attractive (in a numerical sense) does something like this make a girl for you?
Question 2: Find more examples (not really a question I suppose).

Girls reading this, I'm not sure the question really applies to you directly, but please comment as you see fit. I don't really want this thread to be about whether or not you can find guys hot even if they're douchebags. That might make an interesting thread, but I'd like to keep this one on the topic of guy's thoughts on the matter. If you think you have any personal experience (more guys like you because you're cool, fun, smart, etc) I'd love to hear that (or anything else you think is related).

<embed src="http://www.vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=173714" quality="best" scale="exactfit" width="400" height="300" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"></embed>

In case the video doesn't work for anyone here is where I found it.

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

I think what's confusing is the double entendre of "attractive".

I think it would be easier if you said "that girl in the video is only marginally attractive to me, but her awesome personality makes her very appealing to me"

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

Girl has to start out at like a 6 for me to be interested at all.

She can become a 10 if I find her personality attractive.

Edit: Video is indie hipster overload.

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

I disagree in this case but think you're pretty much right.

Also, for most guys IMO, they ignore personality when looking for random hookups, but take it into account (on both ends; plus for good personality, minus for bad) when looking for a serious relationship.

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

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I think what's confusing is the double entendre of "attractive".

I think it would be easier if you said "that girl in the video is only marginally attractive to me, but her awesome personality makes her very appealing to me"

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I think you understand what I mean. Maybe this will be clearer:

I would try to date/sex/whatever this girl as aggressively as an average girl that was 2.5 points hotter on a 1-10 scale because she seems like fun.

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

Question 1: How much more attractive (in a numerical sense) does something like this make a girl for you?


It doesnt make her more attractive to me. I never really understood to much of that stuff. Your example of pam from teh office is a great example, I dont really find her attractive at all, she is ok looking but whatever, she's not hot. I know this isnt your point, but she is also playing a character on TV, I realize that she is, so I dont find her more attractive because, well, I know she is playing a character. In real life, if a girl has a great personality, great, lots of people do, but I dont rate her looks higher because of it.

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I disagree in this case but think you're pretty much right.


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she went from like a 6 to a 4.

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I've heard countless times from girls "I don't think xyz is hot because he/she is an a-hole." I've always thought that was pretty stupid. Either you can't rationally separate physical appearance from personality or you are just too scared to honestly answer the question. Guys, for the most part, have no problem saying a girl is smoking hot even if she's a huge bitch.

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Umm, NO, Mr Oh-So-Right. Now, I'd agree that guys are better at depersonalizing body from overall "hotness" (whether that is GOOD is another argument), but if someone is a huge beeyatch, I don't care HOW good her body supposedly is, she's never going to be "hot" for me.
She'll just be a beeyatch whom a good body got wasted on.

In other words, there's a HUGE difference between me agreeing that someone is attractive and me saying I'd be attracted TO them.
You can decide if that was an honest answer.

I have one question for you, though. Since you so strongly believe in the bump-up factor (and I think you're smart there), why SHOULDN'T there be a bump-down factor?

If you're not attracted to blondes, then a blonde can never be a 10 to you. Since ratings are subjective anyway, is that "wrong" or irrational?

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

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I think what's confusing is the double entendre of "attractive".

I think it would be easier if you said "that girl in the video is only marginally attractive to me, but her awesome personality makes her very appealing to me"

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I think you understand what I mean. Maybe this will be clearer:

I would try to date/sex/whatever this girl as aggressively as an average girl that was 2.5 points hotter on a 1-10 scale because she seems like fun.

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This is where I differ, I wouldnt try to sex this girl ASAP because she isnt hot. If I see a girl who is ok looks wise, but she is really cool, Id rather hang out and talk, or whatever, and try and sex a hot chick.

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

i know what you mean, totally

i really want to play ping pong now

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

I don't understand how anyone could think this makes a girl less attractive. Again, that's not the point but it is sort of baffling. She's obviously laid back and likes to have fun. That is a big plus for me.


Larry, I have no idea what you're talking about. If you think personality is a big deal in saying "she's a 5" or "she's a 7" then fine. I think most guys feel differently but I don't think I should have to point out that no trend is 100% right. As far as why there shouldn't be a "bump-down" I don't really know how to answer that. I never said there shouldn't be and I don't really have an opinion on it. I just said there usually isn't. Whether that "should" be the case or that's a "bad" thing I don't know or care.

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

pretty fun song too, goot choice. If she'd gone for emo she'd be -10.

Personality does increase one's overall attractiveness.

Personality alone will not bag someone though, if you look like your face is melting and your body has been inflated with a bike pump.

I think i probably weight it looks&gt;personality. So a 10 with a 0 personality is 6.67, a 6 with a 9 personality is a 7.5; i'd pick the latter for a relationship (obv 1st for a quickie).

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

Good personality = upgrade in appeal but the video makes me want to walk into that office and just start randomly beating the [censored] out of the people there with a wiffle ball bat.

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I've heard countless times from girls "I don't think xyz is hot because he/she is an a-hole."

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I don't think it is much different for either gender, it is just that women don't admit that they find as*holes attractive whereas men don't care.

Maybe some of this has to do w/ social perception, women want to be thought of as pursued by the kind and charming man but we all know that women get laid by both them and the as*hole of equal attractiveness. Many encounters are only surface level but some women are very self-conscious about how they are perceived. This is just a thought.

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

If you don't think that looks like just about the coolest place in the world to work I think we have very different world views. Regardless, pick some chick who's doing something you like. If you think cutting your wrists is a good time then pretend she's doing that I guess.

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

dumb question because there is a difference between a girls hotness and how attracted you are to her. The way you look at it is as if they are the same. I understand what your attempting to say but your answer is obvious; personality can make you more attracted to somebody, but it dosnt increase their hotness.

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

Good post Evan, I think you are hitting on a few key interesting social issues at play here.

I think we can all agree that guys are more visual when looking for a mate, whereas girls are more geared towards personality, charm, charisma. Now when a guy says "that bitch is hot, but she is a total bitch" he is actively analyzing and separating out those facets. He might even say something like "i would love to have hateful sex with her" because guys love expansion and conquering new territories. He wouldn't want to have a long term relationship with her because he knows she has a horrid personality, but he would love to put her "hot body" as a notch on his belt.

A girl, on the other hand, doesn't have this inclination to conquer and expand and get notches on her belt. She's not going to try to have sex with a guy just because he is hot, although she might spark up a conversation with him if he catches her eye. It is going to take a combination of things usually for her to have sex and especially to have a relationship with this guy. This partially comes from the knowledge that many guys are simply looking for notches and also from the fact that she is sexually attracted to a guy with a certain charisma moreso than a guy with just a certain physique. I also think girls have a harder time analyzing their emotions and thoughts. When she meets a "hot" guy with a horrid personality, she has little sexual attraction to him, and therefore he isn't "hot" to her. A guy meeting a hot bitch with a godawful personality is still going to want to have sex with her, thus she is still "hot" to him.

Now if you are like me (and that would make you quite weird) then a girl's personality increases or decreases her sexual attractiveness to you. I think you are like this from your OP, but many (most?) guys aren't. Of course there is a limit, and a 3 isn't going to become a 9 hardly ever, but a 6 or 7 can often become a 10 if she is sweet and charming, or fun or weird (I like weird girls) or whatever type of personality you tend to be attracted to.

In conclusion, people vary wildly on what looks and personalities they find attractive, and how much each of those factors (for some people looks &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; personality, for some the other way around, for some it is about even). So you are going to get a lot of disagreements on this issue because people really are unique and have their own little quirks about what they like and dislike, just like how many girls get wildly varying "ratings" from different guys on this forum.

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

One interesting thing I think is to think about the girl's personality less in terms of what she's actually like and more in terms of something like this video where you see a small snipet of her doing whatever.

Another example might be seeing some decent chick at a bar and then seeing her sing a kareoke song and laugh at herself. Or maybe seeing her go play beer pong and high five her partner. Just some small, totally insignificant act that gives you a hint of what she's like before you know her.

Obviously I don't know a damn thing about the girl in the video. Maybe she's an idiot and a bitch. But based on this little clip my first impression of her goes way up.

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

what i would say it boils down to is that women seem not to be aroused visually to the same extent that men are, whether that's brain chemistry or socialization or something else at work. it's not that they aren't aroused by appearances, but it's just not the same as for a dude.

i don't really use the whole numerical rating scale, but to me, when personality has an effect on hotness, it is almost always in an upward direction. if a girl is somewhat physically attractive and has a great personality, it makes me want her more. if she's already hot and is an insufferable bitch, it just makes me want to fk her violently and not call her.

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

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If you don't think that looks like just about the coolest place in the world to work I think we have very different world views. Regardless, pick some chick who's doing something you like. If you think cutting your wrists is a good time then pretend she's doing that I guess.

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Barry Diller is just off camera eating babies.

scrub

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

einbert,

I liked a lot of your post. I liked the most about what you said that everyone is different and we all have our own little quirks. For instance, I am like Evan in that a 6 can become an 8.5 simply by being endearing, fun and cool. Much of this reason is b/c I am much happier myself being around these people and the happier I am the more attractive the person across from me is going to be. Of course like you said, 3's don't become 9's b/c there has to be some base attractiveness.

OTOH, what hasn't been mentioned is that for me 9's can become 6's. I have dated a couple and couldn't continue b/c of this. I dated a girl a few years back that was very attractive but she had a very screwed up family that carried over into how she carried herself. She was very unsure of herself, her low self-esteem was combated by shopping and material excess. We had nothing in common and a simple dinner was way too much work, I was unhappy being around her but like a typical guy I used her attractiveness to force myself to want to be around her...I realized very soon that this wasn't me though.

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

Evan,

The first thing that came to mind when I saw a bunch of young people in an office making a music video was all the bad 90's internet startups where the owners spent a lot of time trying to make the office a fun place instead of worrying about a business plan that will turn a profit.

It looks like a great place to work until they run out of venture capital and ask you if you would keep working even though they don't have the money to cover the payroll checks this month.

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

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Evan,

The first thing that came to mind when I saw a bunch of young people in an office making a music video was all the bad 90's internet startups where the owners spent a lot of time trying to make the office a fun place instead of worrying about a business plan that will turn a profit.

It looks like a great place to work until they run out of venture capital and ask you if you would keep working even though they don't have the money to cover the payroll checks this month.

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Couple things:

1) It's pretty shortsighted to say that just because somewhere is a fun place to work it's going to be economically unsustainable. The tech bubble burst had nothing to do with owners not worrying about business plans. Crap businesses got funding, that's a different problem.
2) This company runs some pretty successful businesses.

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

Wow, NYJew is horrible.

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

okay, i don't really have anything significant to contribute to this thread except to say that video was AWESOME!

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

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Evan,

The first thing that came to mind when I saw a bunch of young people in an office making a music video was all the bad 90's internet startups where the owners spent a lot of time trying to make the office a fun place instead of worrying about a business plan that will turn a profit.

It looks like a great place to work until they run out of venture capital and ask you if you would keep working even though they don't have the money to cover the payroll checks this month.

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Couple things:

1) It's pretty shortsighted to say that just because somewhere is a fun place to work it's going to be economically unsustainable. The tech bubble burst had nothing to do with owners not worrying about business plans. Crap businesses got funding, that's a different problem.
2) This company runs some pretty successful businesses.

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Connected Ventures isn't venture-backed. They're majority owned by publicly traded company that did $6B in revenue in 2006.

http://finance.google.com/finance?q=iac

http://www.iac.com/index/news/press/...il.htm?id=7822

http://www.clickz.com/showPage.html?page=3623164

scrub

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

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I disagree in this case but think you're pretty much right.


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she went from like a 5 to a 4.

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Wow, NYJew is horrible.

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please explain how this is anything other than a totally unsolicited, unfunyy anti-semitic remark. you'll have to do so via PM since you're banned.

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

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If you don't think that looks like just about the coolest place in the world to work I think we have very different world views. Regardless, pick some chick who's doing something you like. If you think cutting your wrists is a good time then pretend she's doing that I guess.

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Agree it looks like a cool place to work but it also reminds me why dot com businesses typically fail. I guess they learned nothing from the dot com bubble.

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

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but I am REALLY attracted to her largely because she just seems really cool and fun and obviously doesn't take herself too seriously. If she starts at a 6, I'd say this little clip makes her as attractive to me as a "normal" 8.5. So she gets 2.5 points for being awesome.


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I don't understand how her acting the part of someone lipsynching with almost no emotion makes her seem "cool," "fun" and "awesome" to you. I would have just given her a 7.5 or 8 from the start and been done with it.

P.S. I assume you do realize that your projection onto her of all of the above characteristics really has nothing to do with the title of your thread, since I further assume that you don't know anything about her actual personality.

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

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but I am REALLY attracted to her largely because she just seems really cool and fun and obviously doesn't take herself too seriously. If she starts at a 6, I'd say this little clip makes her as attractive to me as a "normal" 8.5. So she gets 2.5 points for being awesome.


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I don't understand how her acting the part of someone lipsynching with almost no emotion makes her seem "cool," "fun" and "awesome" to you. I would have just given her a 7.5 or 8 from the start and been done with it.

P.S. I assume you do realize that your projection onto her of all of the above characteristics really has nothing to do with the title of your thread, since I further assume that you don't know anything about her actual personality.

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I specifically pointed out somewhere mid thread that I was talking about instances of things that give you tiny snippets of someone's personality. I think I gave an example of a girl singing kareoke. So yes, I understand I don't actually know anything about her. That was largely the point but I didn't explain it very well in the OP.

As far as the title, whatever dude. It's not like I called it "new dog food brand!" I don't think anyone was especially confused by the content given the title. So as far as I'm concerned it's all good.

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If you don't think that looks like just about the coolest place in the world to work I think we have very different world views. Regardless, pick some chick who's doing something you like. If you think cutting your wrists is a good time then pretend she's doing that I guess.

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Agree it looks like a cool place to work but it also reminds me why dot com businesses typically fail. I guess they learned nothing from the dot com bubble.

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This is not why dot com businesses typically fail. It's not even close.

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

a hot girl with a bad personality stands more to lose then an ugly girl with a good personality stands to gain.

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btw, that girl is cute. i can still see giving her a 6 because she is not really hot, but still she is cute.

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

I know a few girls who are cute but I find hot/very attractive because of their personality.

while personality doesn't affect how hott I think a chick is in a negative way, it will affect how I feel about her(as in I will admit she is hot, but I will not be attracted to her)

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

Ok, I really REALLY feel I need to interject here. A lot of this may be opinion, but its logical, well thought out over the years, and entertaining.. so hey, feel free to discuss.

First, looks and personality, while both combining to form your overall opinion of a girl (I'm a guy, I'm writing it from that point of view), are not BOTH on the scale. The numerical scale is for looks; IMO, personality is not on a scale.. it's much more subjective than looks, and as such its in the eye of the beholder.

The bottom line is, looks and personality cannot be on the same scale because without an initial physical attraction on some level, personality means nothing. For instance, upon seeing a girl, I put them in the 'yes/no for sex' category right away, regardless of their rating. I can be much more attracted to a 7 than an 8.5 based on personality (see explanation of my ratings below), but nonetheless, the 8.5 is still hotter, even though my overall view of the girls has changed.

I'd like to think the 1-10 scale is objective (within maybe a point or two based on some personal tastes), because there are general features that are simply attractive in women in the eyes of men, and some that aren't.

My scale works a lot like imdb.com's movie rating scale, and I do in fact use decimals because I think there is a great deal of clustering. I barely ever EVER give out a 10, a 9+ is rather rare, 8+ is a very hot girl, and 7 is a typical attractive girl that is very much dateable for me. Typical attractive girls you'd see on a daily basis fit between 6.5 and 8, with ones approaching 8 and above truly standing out (much like really good movies). Anything between 5.5 and 6 is questionable for me personally, but as has been discussed, personality can make someone worthy of pursuit.

The scale must be kept entirely seperate from personality so that any girl may be placed on the scale and can subsequently be discussed without the need for all parties involved to have met her. "She was an 8" should mean something. From that point on, her personality can be explained, but there's simply no way to add that to the scale because men are attracted to different traits; personality is also much more complex than looks. The Scale (yes, it is capitalized from hence forth) is the starting point and basis for all disucssion regarding females.

That's my $0.02

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

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The numerical scale is for looks; IMO, personality is not on a scale

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Dude come on, this is just stupid.




As for the rest of your post, a lot of that is pretty poorly thought out as well. It really seems like you didn't even read the OP. Why are you explaining that there is a place for just rating a girl's physical appearance? Even in the OP I specifically said "this girl is a 6" or whatever. Saying that I can't take into account personality/some observation and make up a new number to reflect it just makes no sense to me.

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btw, that girl is cute. i can still see giving her a 6 because she is not really hot, but still she is cute.

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I pretty sure I would do her silly.

Re: Personality and overall attractiveness
 

I don't disagree with the OP at all, except when trying to put a number on a personality, thus allowing a rating to jump all over the place. It's very difficult to discuss that on any level that isn't grossly subjective (of course, that's why its makes for such a good conversation, because it is personality concrete). Looks, on the other hand, are much more simple, and a universal way to discuss them I feel is in order.

Please take everything with a grain of salt, there's no need to get upset here. I do not feel that it is "stupid", as you say, to believe that a rating system that can just jump around randomly based on your own changing feelings and experiences with her is not a great way to asess a woman on a numberical scale.

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I think what's confusing is the double entendre of "attractive".

I think it would be easier if you said "that girl in the video is only marginally attractive to me, but her awesome personality makes her very appealing to me"

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This is much easier to separate out when you haven't seen the girl much or know her well. You still have your "meh" to get over, hanging around in the back of her mind, and you haven't had too much time to stew on how awesome she is yet. Next time you see her, that feeling that she is awesome will be there right from the start and make her look prettier immediately. At least that's how it is with me. I remember the awesome and forget the "meh" re: looks.

After a while, you might see an average or worse girl from an unexpected angle, or not know from behind that it's her or whatever, and suddenly be shocked when you process that it's that girl you find so attractive. Then sometimes you have to work off the "meh" factor for a while and reflect on how strange it is that your perceptions can be fooled. But perceptions aren't reality; there's always an "I" doing the perceiving, filtering everything. Including making very average girls look pretty cute.