About This Forum
 

So is there anyone else who thinks the best way to handle problems we have with this forum in the future is in house rather than draggin it to ATF? Even if the complaints are about Iron's modding, I'd rather simply have it taken to him here and rejected than drag ATF into it again.

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Yes. Most of the complaints come off as whining and make the rest of the forum look bad.

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Yeah. An in house "About the Forums" thread in politics might be a good idea. For those that absolutely have to make a big deal about some perceived injustice, it gives them a place to do so.

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I'm sure Mat doesn't like the dirty laundry in there, but I have a sneaking suspicion it spices up the ATF trolls mundane lives. I know it gives BluffThis a chance to wax poetic about all that is wrong with the politics forum, and a chance for those who are traumatized by the discourse in this forum to rail against the 'harsh' tone or whatever their beef is. Sometimes the politics threads in ATF, although unruly, can be amusing on many levels.

Re: About This Forum
 

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So is there anyone else who thinks the best way to handle problems we have with this forum in the future is in house rather than draggin it to ATF? Even if the complaints are about Iron's modding, I'd rather simply have it taken to him here and rejected than drag ATF into it again.

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It was never the people who had problems with the forum that wanted to go to ATF. The mods had shutdown feedback on the Politics forum within the forum, so it went to the only place available.

This is not really a criticism; It is called "About the Forums", after all. You can make a good case for moving and making such threads there, but I think in house would be much better.

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So is there anyone else who thinks the best way to handle problems we have with this forum in the future is in house rather than draggin it to ATF? Even if the complaints are about Iron's modding, I'd rather simply have it taken to him here and rejected than drag ATF into it again.

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It was never the people who had problems with the forum that wanted to go to ATF. The mods had shutdown feedback on the Politics forum within the forum, so it went to the only place available.

This is not really a criticism; It is called "About the Forums", after all. You can make a good case for moving and making such threads there, but I think in house would be much better.

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Yeah, that's what I'm getting at really. ATF is certainly the official place for such things, but it seems like most people, particularly Mat, would be much happier if it was handled in here.

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I have a question/complaint:

Iron has deleted a link I made to a video on my blog. The link was not to my blog in general, it was to a specific video in there. I could have also linked to the google video or youtube (I don't remember which) page, but I don't see how that should matter. I have many relevant links on my blog to the different isssues and that way people can easily find it if they want to.

To restate: the link was *relevant*. So why should that be a problem?

I also remember having positive feedback in this forum to that specific link/video.

Also:
I have linked many times to podcasts and websites that are either of my own or that I am affiliated with, and have never received one complaint.

So what's up?

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Have you PMed iron81 about it?

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Have you PMed iron81 about it?

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Some other guy pm-ed me about it saying that iron can't pm me because I have him on ignore. I'm pm-ed back to that guy about it.

But I also thought it was something that should be more out in the open for debate and clarity.

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If iron just axed it for the link to the blog site, just link to the YouTube version and be done with it.

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[ QUOTE ]
So is there anyone else who thinks the best way to handle problems we have with this forum in the future is in house rather than draggin it to ATF? Even if the complaints are about Iron's modding, I'd rather simply have it taken to him here and rejected than drag ATF into it again.

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It's very much easier to write this off for the lost cause that it has become.

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I don't see why you people have to whine about all this stuff.

Just get put on 92% of people's mute list like me and no one will ever see these bad posts you are all talking about.

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I'd appreciate it if someone could quote this: The reason Nielsio can't link his blog is that there is a rule against linking to any website you control on 2+2. Its intended as an anti-spam measure but it applies to non-commercial websites as well. The reason I let it go this long is that I didn't realize freedomchannel.blogspot was owned by Nielsio. I never read it until another user pointed out to me that that's Nielsio's blog and I had always assumed that Nielsio was a fan of the blogger.

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Some other guy pm-ed me about it saying that iron can't pm me because I have him on ignore.

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Given all the recent drama is this really necessary? Just take iron off ignore or put up with his decisions

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I'd appreciate it if someone could quote this: The reason Nielsio can't link his blog is that there is a rule against linking to any website you control on 2+2. Its intended as an anti-spam measure but it applies to non-commercial websites as well. The reason I let it go this long is that I didn't realize freedomchannel.blogspot was owned by Nielsio. I never read it until another user pointed out to me that that's Nielsio's blog and I had always assumed that Nielsio was a fan of the blogger.

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Where is this rule.

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Some other guy pm-ed me about it saying that iron can't pm me because I have him on ignore.

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Given all the recent drama is this really necessary? Just take iron off ignore or put up with his decisions.

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One cannot change the ignore-status of mods. This includes un-ignoring.

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I guess the ignore list got washed when we changed software a couple weeks ago. Twin, Nielsio couldn't take me off ignore for a while because I was on ignore when I was greened and the software wouldn't let Nielsio take me off.

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Where is this rule.

[/ QUOTE ] Here

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Where is this rule.

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Ugh. The intent of that rule has nothing to do with my case. But I guess there's little you or I can do about that.

The fact that someone specifically mentioned it being my blog for the purpose of having is censored really, really quite sad.

Re: About This Forum
 

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I guess the ignore list got washed when we changed software a couple weeks ago. Twin, Nielsio couldn't take me off ignore for a while because I was on ignore when I was greened and the software wouldn't let Nielsio take me off.

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Where is this rule.

[/ QUOTE ] Here

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Iron,
thanks for modding. You respond to criticism, and don't seem to take things personally, and you can't coach that.

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Where is this rule.

[/ QUOTE ] Here

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Ugh. The intent of that rule has nothing to do with my case. But I guess there's little you or I can do about that.

The fact that someone specifically mentioned it being my blog for the purpose of having is censored really, really quite sad.

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Just roll with it man. One of the main reasons politics drives matt crazy and all those people in atf biotch about us is because if every time there is some baby issue we make 'an issue' out of it. Multiply that by 25 and it just gives everyone the impression that politics is full of complainers who can't let anything go.

Then when a big issue comes up the powers that be are already fed up by hearing about all the ongoing complaints and issues that they just want to shut us down.

In any event I really want to keep things in house here and would rather tolerate some decisions from iron that I disagree with as part of a compromise. He is a volunteer and it's not like he is power hungry or anything.

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This rule does seem pretty poorly thought out. The *content* should be what determines if a link is "OK" or not; someone has already pointed out that this exact same content, pointed to by the exact same person, would be fine if the content were hosted at youtube. In this case, it should be obvious that an exception to the rule is in order.

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Ugh. The intent of that rule has nothing to do with my case. But I guess there's little you or I can do about that.

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You can:
*Copy and paste your ideas from that site to 2+2.
But perhaps you are more interested in promoting your site than communicating your ideas on 2+2.

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This rule does seem pretty poorly thought out. The *content* should be what determines if a link is "OK" or not; someone has already pointed out that this exact same content, pointed to by the exact same person, would be fine if the content were hosted at youtube. In this case, it should be obvious that an exception to the rule is in order.

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This rule seems very easily thought out. It's not worth the effort to check each site individually for content. Global rules make up in their efficiency what they might miss in individual instances of unfairness.

There are two very easy solutions here. A person can just copy and paste from his own blog, something that isn't very hard to do. Or, a person can find a buddy to swap link referrals to boost traffic to their own sites. You popularize my blog and I popularize yours.

Iron81, this should probably go in the Politics forum constitution.

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This rule does seem pretty poorly thought out. The *content* should be what determines if a link is "OK" or not; someone has already pointed out that this exact same content, pointed to by the exact same person, would be fine if the content were hosted at youtube. In this case, it should be obvious that an exception to the rule is in order.

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This rule seems very easily thought out. It's not worth the effort to check each site individually for content. Global rules make up in their efficiency what they might miss in individual instances of unfairness.

There are two very easy solutions here. A person can just copy and paste from his own blog, something that isn't very hard to do. Or, a person can find a buddy to swap link referrals to boost traffic to their own sites. You popularize my blog and I popularize yours.

Iron81, this should probably go in the Politics forum constitution.

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The link swapping idea seems like a horrible loophole for this law. In any case, I am working on a website now that I would like to publicize on 2+2 once it is ready. Anyone else want to loophole with me?

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If you and Nielsio did this I would [censored] myself laughing.

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Anyone else want to loophole with me?

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I'd love to if it weren't for the fact that it sounds extremely gay.

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Anyone else want to loophole with me?

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I'd love to if it weren't for the fact that it sounds extremely gay.

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hmk would tell you not to knock it till you've tried it.

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If you and Nielsio did this I would [censored] myself laughing.

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I would be willing to do this with Nielsio. I need to get working on my site though.

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If you and Nielsio did this I would [censored] myself laughing.

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I would be willing to do this with Nielsio. I need to get working on my site though.

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This is the ultimate proof that people value cooperation more than conflict.

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If you're stupid enough to discuss circumventing rules in a thread that you know the mod is monitoring and then do it, you definately deserve a tempban.

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This rule does seem pretty poorly thought out. The *content* should be what determines if a link is "OK" or not; someone has already pointed out that this exact same content, pointed to by the exact same person, would be fine if the content were hosted at youtube. In this case, it should be obvious that an exception to the rule is in order.

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This rule seems very easily thought out. It's not worth the effort to check each site individually for content. Global rules make up in their efficiency what they might miss in individual instances of unfairness.

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Yes, because really this is all about just making things easy for moderators.

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There are two very easy solutions here. A person can just copy and paste from his own blog, something that isn't very hard to do.

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O RLY? We're talking about a video here. Please show me the UBB tags for embedding a video. kthnx.

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Or, a person can find a buddy to swap link referrals to boost traffic to their own sites. You popularize my blog and I popularize yours.

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No friends? Too bad, we don't want to hear what you have to say. Is it OK for me to post links to a spammer's site if he PM's me the address?? "Everybody likes a free ipod, click here!!!"

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If you're stupid enough to discuss circumventing rules in a thread that you know the mod is monitoring and then do it, you definately deserve a tempban.

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Pointing out a loophole in a stupid rule deserves a ban?
There is no rule against posting a link to someone else's website. Isn't this the exact channel that complaining about dumb rules should be done? Iron, you are letting this power get to your head again. I thought the purpose of this thread was to get some heat off of you from Mat. I know you don't like me since I have been calling for your head for some time. But this kind of power trip shows exactly why you are extremely poor at the judgement calls needed to be the moderator.

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I think he meant that if you *implement* the circumvention of the rules after discussing them publicly in a thread he is monitoring that would deserve the tempban, not the discussing of it.

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I think he meant that if you *implement* the circumvention of the rules after discussing them publicly in a thread he is monitoring that would deserve the tempban, not the discussing of it.

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Ah. I reread it, it makes more sense. When my website is ready, I will notify a few people on 2+2 and if they feel it is worth discussing, they can do so at their own will.

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Iron, you are letting this power get to your head again.

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Seriously ?? ... I think this has been repeatedly proven to be a false characterization.

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1. Borodog is right. Bottom line is that moderators are supposed to use their judgment. If I played that kind of game in the Mod Forum they would rip me apart. Rules are not set in stone to stop that kind of gaming.

2. Rules against spam are not stupid. Before I started posting on 2+2, I posted in the Rec.Gambling.Poker newsgroup. For 10 years, that group was the number one online poker resource and many high stakes pros that we now recognize on TV not only posted there, but posted strat. Today, that site has been eclipsed by several forums, largely because it is infested with spam.

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Iron, you are letting this power get to your head again.

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Seriously ?? ... I think this has been repeatedly proven to be a false characterization.

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Proven? LOL. Iron doesn't like it when I criticize him. When he doesn't like it, he finds a minor infraction to ban me (and leave others who do the same untouched). Prove that.

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you and I both have been banned FOR GOOD REASON. Just because something else was missed doesn't make it vindictive.

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1. Borodog is right. Bottom line is that moderators are supposed to use their judgment. If I played that kind of game in the Mod Forum they would rip me apart. Rules are not set in stone to stop that kind of gaming.

2. Rules against spam are not stupid. Before I started posting on 2+2, I posted in the Rec.Gambling.Poker newsgroup. For 10 years, that group was the number one online poker resource. Today, that site has been eclipsed by several forums, largely because it is infested with spam.

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No one is saying that banning spam is dumb. If Nielsio links to an article in his own blog and has enough useful information in it, it is not spam. For example, someone posts something about the death peanlty. Nielsio posts summarizing his blog article (or video or whatever), and posts it. This is not spam. Ed Miller posts a link to an article on his own site relevent to discussion. This is not spam. Determining what is and isn't spam is a judgement call. I understand the concern about letting Iron decide to make judgement calls, since he usually has extremely poor judgement. However, I do trust him enough (for now) to know the difference between spam and quality links. The intent of the rule is to ban spam.

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you and I both have been banned FOR GOOD REASON. Just because something else was missed doesn't make it vindictive.

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Criticizing the moderator is not a good reason in my opinion.