200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

Villain is sbrugby. We've played before though sparingly and never HU. No real big hands until this one. I'm pretty sure he knows who i am and that I'm a thinking player.

FullTiltPoker Game #2290741959: Table Canfield (6 max) - $200/$400 - No Limit Hold'em - 1:02:42 ET - 2007/04/26
Seat 1: Ozzy 87 ($77,070)
Seat 2: jinsokkp ($50,794)
Seat 3: David Benyamine ($40,000)
Seat 4: whitelime ($121,939)
Seat 5: nlberns ($5,600)
Seat 6: sbrugby ($48,394)
sbrugby posts the small blind of $200
OpenSea (Observer): no deal for doodoo?
Ozzy 87 posts the big blind of $400
The button is in seat #5
MARINO613 (Observer): whats the best site to track cash games
JimmyB13 (Observer): I'll tell you where to send
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to whitelime [Ks Jc]
JimmyB13 (Observer): my request
Mrthaumy (Observer): highstakesdb.com
jinsokkp has 15 seconds left to act
OpenSea (Observer): just 2 bucks
jinsokkp folds
David Benyamine folds
whitelime raises to $1,400
carpman42 (Observer): i thought you were NLBERNS!!!!!
Sospiro (Observer): Lets see another 76000 pot
nlberns folds
sbrugby calls $1,200
Ozzy 87 folds
*** FLOP *** [9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]]
sbrugby checks
javabung (Observer): who is NLBERNS?
whitelime checks
*** TURN *** [9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]] [K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]]
sbrugby checks
Fluffy Bubbles (Observer): it's ted nugent
whitelime bets $1,200
pokerfanatc (Observer): shortstack
javabung (Observer): ty
sbrugby raises to $6,400
JimmyB13 (Observer): the first 5 of you that send me a photo of yourself eating your own sh.it to me at beggarseatshi.t.com will get $50
Mrthaumy (Observer): obv whitelime = chuck norris
whitelime calls $5,200
Fluffy Bubbles (Observer): obv
*** RIVER *** [9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]] [9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]]
pokerfanatc (Observer): lol
javabung (Observer): saw him playing 500/1000 NL yesterday with Benyamine
sbrugby bets $30,000

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed *DELETED*
 

Post deleted by Yeti

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

sbrugby bet 30K into like 16K pot?????????

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

I'm not a high stakes player by any means, but I've watched sbrugby play quite a bit. I doubt very much that he's overbetting without a big hand here. 3 nines a the least, more likely a boat. He's not calling from the blind with a worse King, he probably checks the river with a marginal hand. You're obviously only beating a bluff, and you've repped a big hand so I don't think sbrugby is going to throw $30,000 away without a stronger one. (i.e. fold river.)

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

I think brian filled up. He generally plays 2pair soft on the flop.

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed *DELETED*
 

Post deleted by Yeti

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

He hasnt repped a big hand at all here by checking the flop and 1/2potting turn. How often do you check the turn w/ your K and w/ a hand thats missed like AT? Without being results oriented I think aba may donk into the riv a lot on you w/ anything after youve checked 2x and you control the pot size here with your hand.
I figured your expected the c/r after betting 1/2pot on turn but you have to figure he'll follow through big on the riv since your hand looks exactly like a good K which is why Id never call that c/r or check the turn and try and induce on the riv.

Also observer chat is great
javabung (Observer): who is NLBERNS?
Fluffy Bubbles (Observer): it's ted nugent
Mrthaumy (Observer): obv whitelime = chuck norris

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

honestly.. can we ban the guys posting results

Were lucky to have a 200/400 guy posting hands, lets not blow it.

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

[ QUOTE ]
He hasnt repped a big hand at all here by checking the flop and 1/2potting turn.

[/ QUOTE ]You're right, but he's repped a King at least by calling the c/r.

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

It seeme like your turn action makes your hand look exactly like what it is (one pair-- Kx or maybe AA once in a blue moon, basically TP or it's equivalent). Do you ever take the line up to that point with anything better? Whether or not you should call the river is reliant upone whether or not he thinks you can fold a king there; if you think he thinks you can, I'd be more likely to call.

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

Is the small bet on the turn standard for you? I'd just bet 2k or so. On the river I would expect that aba puts you on a king, but he could easily be value betting or bluffing. You're obv not getting great odds either. I say flip a coin [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is the small bet on the turn standard for you? I'd just bet 2k or so. On the river I would expect that aba puts you on a king, but he could easily be value betting or bluffing. You're obv not getting great odds either. I say flip a coin [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts exactly.

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

[ QUOTE ]
honestly.. can we ban the guys posting results

Were lucky to have a 200/400 guy posting hands, lets not blow it.

[/ QUOTE ]
QFT
For the hand most of the spots I've seen Aba overbet in hands posted he's had a real hand but I could easily have a selective memory on this.

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
honestly.. can we ban the guys posting results

Were lucky to have a 200/400 guy posting hands, lets not blow it.

[/ QUOTE ]

In a cardrunners vid he said he likes to overbet bluff-shove vs. people with high coldcalling frequencies
QFT
For the hand most of the spots I've seen Aba overbet in hands posted he's had a real hand but I could easily have a selective memory on this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

i avoid spots like this vs solid aggros by betting the flop or checking behind again on the turn

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

this is a very tricky spot as aba should know once you call the turn that you have minimum of a king.
Problem is that he knows that you can't have a set since most of the time your going to bet a set on this board.
Honestly his overbet looks like he is trying to push you off a king, he could have any 2. I think this is a great spot for him to over bet bluff. Especially since he knows your a good thinking player.

so i like a call.

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

[ QUOTE ]
i avoid spots like this vs solid aggros by betting the flop or checking behind again on the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

This is somewhat of a mind [censored] of a hand because of all the different levels of thinking and outplaying that can be going on here.

When I first heard of the hand I thought it was a bad call by you, but I think it's pretty close, given your hand is mostly transparent.

I think it'd be pretty easy to convince yourslef that Aba is trying to move you off a king w/ an overbet since a pot bet won't ever do it. But he's pretty smart and knows you're thinking that..

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

is it just me or is this hand identical to a hand between doyle and jamie gold on HSP?

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

please stop posting results you 10-posts retards

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

Not sure if this is mentioned yet, but since Whitelime doesn't normally play these stakes, that's a [censored] of a river bet for him to call.

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i avoid spots like this vs solid aggros by betting the flop or checking behind again on the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]
Why? I understand your logic of betting the flop but once whitelime checks why would he check behind again?

I'd also add that as played whitelime's hand is pretty faceup. I think Aba knows that KJ is basically the top of his range here which makes me think its a call. I mean this would be a very good line for Aba to take with any two. But then we get into a leveling war because Whitelime knows that Aba knows his hand looks like a weakish one pair hand etc.

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

Would you consider this an example where making a weak bet on the turn to get a call from a weaker hand actually put you in a bad spot? If you bet a normal 2k like stinger said then it would be much easier to fold this. Since you feigned weakness with underbetting the turn, it would make me think aba is just trying to move me off my hand. My head hurts.

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

[ QUOTE ]
this is a very tricky spot as aba should know once you call the turn that you have minimum of a king.
Problem is that he knows that you can't have a set since most of the time your going to bet a set on this board.
Honestly his overbet looks like he is trying to push you off a king, he could have any 2. I think this is a great spot for him to over bet bluff. Especially since he knows your a good thinking player.

so i like a call.

[/ QUOTE ]
What % of the time is he bluffing here though? Has to be over 40% of the time to make the call profitable. Suspecting he might be bluffing and thinking this would be a good situation to do so isn't enough, he has to be doing it nearly half the time... and I think most of the time the overbet means big strength.

I'd also question whether this is actually a good bluffing spot, since bluffing is best when you think your opponent is weak, and here Brian knows whitelime has some sort of a hand and there's a good chance whitelime will call his ass.

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

Anyone else surprised that Aba played this hand so tricky?

I think he normally loses a ton of value playing his hand this way....

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure if this is mentioned yet, but since Whitelime doesn't normally play these stakes, that's a [censored] of a river bet for him to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I'm thinking and ABA definately knows this if he's ever read whitelime's CR blog. I vaguely remember reading something in his blog about him losing 35k one day and how much it sucked blablabla... So I think calling this is fine since it really looks like he's trying to push you off a K here.

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not a high stakes player by any means, but I've watched sbrugby play quite a bit. I doubt very much that he's overbetting without a big hand here. 3 nines a the least, more likely a boat. He's not calling from the blind with a worse King, he probably checks the river with a marginal hand. You're obviously only beating a bluff, and you've repped a big hand so I don't think sbrugby is going to throw $30,000 away without a stronger one. (i.e. fold river.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I've seen ABA do this with air and big hands, the interesting thing about this hand is that ABA probably thinks whitelime is somewhat scared money in this game, and that's a hell of a river bet to call with just a K.

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

Yeah, the problem I have with Aba's play is that he has to put Whitelime on exactly Kx for this play to have been profitable. If Whitelime does not have Kx, he prob checks behind turn, and Aba loses so much value by the river.

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

pokermonkey,
first of all, i suck at nl.
2nd of all, why do you think aba would overbet here when whitelime pretty much at best can have AK here? You think he is trying to extract more value?
I may be wrong and aba only bluffs here 20% of the time, but i don't think that aba checks a set twice than puts in a more than pot c/r and than bets 1.5 pot on river.
i would think aba would save this play for a tilting player or someone he has lots of history with.

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

The only way to solve the problem here is to know what both players were thinking at the moment. I think pretty much everyone agree that your hand if face up been a Kx. And ABa knows that too. You probably know that Aba knows too, and he probably knows that you know that he know. So that's why it's so tricky... wat was eh thinking?

You realy have to interpret is over bet with all the above here, is he trying to push you of a K knowing that you know, or he knows that you know that he know so he's value betting because you'll see that as a "Iwant you to fold" and then call?

In both case I wouldn't get into that game with aba because you probably loose either way... but If I had to pick I would go for the fold!! odds are not good, you need to be right alot of the time here

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

This bet looks more to me like he's trying to get paid by 9x, which decided to get semifancy on the flop. Had the river blanked, meaning 5-7 and <5 no diamonds, I'd be much more inclined to call. After all, there's not much difference in calling this size of bet with Kx or a normal VB, whereas 9x snapcalls both. Without knowing Sbrubgy at all, I would think he knows this.

Oh and furthermore, given your flopaction, I don't think betting turn is a good idea holding Kx against a tricky player as he is. Then I'd much rahter check behind and valueraise river.

- AB

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

Umm... I think betting Kx against Aba here on the turn is absolutely standard.

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

Exactly.

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

Whitelime's hand is basically faceup for sbrugby to see as everyone has mentioned. You have no real clue what he holds since there were a dozen draws available on the turn as well as big made hands and air. If he assumes that you're a thinking player, then how often does he expect you to pay him with Kx here? I think that if he puts you on that hand, he's gonna make a more realistic value bet that he is sure you'll pay since he's probably pretty sure of your hand.

My guess is that he flopped bottom 2 pair and got counterfitted on the river and you're good to go now.

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

I would follow the usual mindset that "everyone always has it" here and fold.

I think you still need to c bet this flop a good amount of the time. A solid player isn't calling in the sb there with a ton of suited connectors, and in my experience from watching his videos and playing him, Aba is semi strict about not playing these suited connectors OOP. So its not like he connects with this flop more often than you do; I definitely like a c bet with air.

-Jeff

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

the whole "whitelimes hand is face up so aba will bluff" is imo wrong... at these stakes, guys are definitely going to be erring on the side of hero calls. basically every draw missed, so this is really easy for rugby to fake a missed draw, overbet knowing that whitelime is thinking "man i cant let these guys push me around".

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

[ QUOTE ]
pokermonkey,
first of all, i suck at nl.
2nd of all, why do you think aba would overbet here when whitelime pretty much at best can have AK here? You think he is trying to extract more value?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, exactly. He knows whitelime has a King and it's going to be hard for him to lay it down, so I'd think this is a value bet disguised as an overbet bluff. A pot-sized bet is almost more worrying because he's saying he can beat a King.

[ QUOTE ]
I may be wrong and aba only bluffs here 20% of the time, but i don't think that aba checks a set twice than puts in a more than pot c/r and than bets 1.5 pot on river.
i would think aba would save this play for a tilting player or someone he has lots of history with.

[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe, but if whitelime has a flush draw on the flop, often he'll bet the draw. On the turn if whitelime doesn't have a King and aba bets, whitelime probably folds. Even if whitelime has a club draw, he probably bets it here. If he has neither flush draw, aba doesn't have to worry about getting outdrawn by the flush, and a bet on a 3-flush board on the river could be interpreted as a bluff and get called lightly. So I like aba's line if he did flop a set.

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

I disagree. With Aba's aggro image, I don't think he ever checks this board twice with a set...

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

[ QUOTE ]
With Aba's aggro image, I don't think he ever checks this board twice with a set...

[/ QUOTE ]
think a few levels higher

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
With Aba's aggro image, I don't think he ever checks this board twice with a set...

[/ QUOTE ]
think a few levels higher

[/ QUOTE ]
QFT
I think Aba is checking this turn with most of his range and almost always with sets and AA