Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

How does OOT feel about pre-nups? If you really trust a girl, is it below the belt to ask for one? I don't have a personal situation now, but I'd love to hear from some people who have experience in this sort of thing.

Let's hear it.

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

depends on your net worth [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

IMO, if someone refuses to think about a pre-nup, that person isn't mature enough to get married.

Many (most?) marriages end in a divorce. Securing your futures in a responsible way by making sure no one gets the raw end of the deal is the most sensible thing you can ever do.
Believing (=hoping) that in your personal oh-so-special case things can't go wrong is plain stupid.

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

Ah yeah, let's pretend you're Michael Streehan here. Or someone with significant net worth.

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

This reminds me to ask this question, I have a house worth about 700k in my name it's not really mine but it is on paper. Apart from that I am basically broke, I will marry my girlfriend from China later this year or next year so she can get a visa, should I get this house out of my name now?

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

Imitation,

Depends on which state you live in, but if the property is not yours, yet is in your name, I'd say you're carrying a significant liability on several fronts.

OP - prenup agreements aren't just for the uber wealthy. My wife isn't on my mortgage. We share expenses though. We didn't do a prenup, so we had to have a complicated Will that assures her share of the property is preserved should I croak before her. I forget the legal term for it, but there's a section of the document that requires us to dispose of the other's interest in the property (i.e. sell the house) if we split.

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

it seems like a good idea to me if there is a big disparity in income. No reason to give the other financial incentive to divorce.

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

I honestly think that if you are seriously considering a pre-nup, you should seriously question whether you should be getting married.

I realise that around 50% of marriages will end in divorce. Many of these people probably got married for the wrong reasons (societal pressures, shortsightedness, etc). It's a pretty massive commitment that shouldnt be taken lightly.

If your getting married for other reasons (for a green card, or just a big party, etc) then the other party should be understanding of the need for a pre-nup.

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

[ QUOTE ]
IMO, if someone refuses to think about a pre-nup, that person isn't mature enough to get married.

Many (most?) marriages end in a divorce. Securing your futures in a responsible way by making sure no one gets the raw end of the deal is the most sensible thing you can ever do.
Believing (=hoping) that in your personal oh-so-special case things can't go wrong is plain stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

Many of our financial futures are based on what we know and what we do rather than what we have.

If I lost all of my material possessions tomorrow, it would be little more than a short term blip. The things that I really want to keep, my wife has no interest in and wouldn't take them - even to spite me.

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

my net worth: -£12000
her net worth: +£8000

our future net worth: roughly equal, all things considered.

I don't see a need for a prenup in most cases.

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

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I realise that around 50% of marriages will end in divorce. Many of these people probably got married for the wrong reasons

[/ QUOTE ]

What would you consider to be the right reasons?

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I honestly think that if you are seriously considering a pre-nup, you should seriously question whether you should be getting married.

I realise that around 50% of marriages will end in divorce. Many of these people probably got married for the wrong reasons (societal pressures, shortsightedness, etc). It's a pretty massive commitment that shouldnt be taken lightly.

If your getting married for other reasons (for a green card, or just a big party, etc) then the other party should be understanding of the need for a pre-nup.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you have insurance when you drive your vehicle? I assume you do.

Does this mean that because you have insurance that your going to go out and drive into a wall? Of course not.

Prenups are always a good thing, no matter how much your worth.

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

Prenup's protects both party's. Always get them. I see them like insurance. I wish states would make that part of getting a marriage license

Divorce Laws favor.....
 

Divorce laws favor women.....and since 50% of married couples get divorced you need to protect yourself.

If you have money you are a FOOL not to get a prenup. Donald Trump has stated his approval of prenups many times. I'm sure a google search can show you his exact words. An acquaintance of mine was a wealthy farmer. He asked he fiance if she would agree to a pre-nup. She bitch about it constantly referring to it as "the contract" but she signed it.....

Remember....only the very poor and the very rich can afford a divorce.

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I honestly think that if you are seriously considering a pre-nup, you should seriously question whether you should be getting married.

I realise that around 50% of marriages will end in divorce. Many of these people probably got married for the wrong reasons (societal pressures, shortsightedness , etc). It's a pretty massive commitment that shouldnt be taken lightly .


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Um, you're taking marriage seriously if you care enough about your partner to get a prenup. Prenups are not about ME ME ME, it is about clarifying assets and making agreements that are in the best interests of both parties. If one person is insanely rich, then prenups protect the sanctity of the marriage (ie. making sure they are marrying for the right reasons), and eliminating the potentially wacky financial incentives brought on by divorce courts.

Which is more shortsighted: making rudimentary preparations in case of divorce, or ignoring the possibility?

NB. I'm about to get married. My fiancee and I have talked about a prenup, but we probably wont get one. We dont have many assets. We may reconsider, since every financial advisor I have ever met recommends a prenup. I think it's stupid to criticize the benefit of prenups, and it may provide a societal benefit to make them mandatory for all marriages (they are a lot cheaper than divorce proceedings tend to be).

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

i wouldnt get married in the usa without a prenup

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

If the girl I'm going to marry has a roughly equivalent net worth, I probably wouldn't bother.

If I have considerably more, I'd absolutely get one. There are a million factors that could lead to divorce. One needs only to look at the > 50% divorce rate to see this.

If she has much more than me, I wouldn't mention a prenup, but would sign one if she asked [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

-Z

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

x = your appearance on a 10 scale
y = her appearance on a 10 scale

if x + 2 < y, go ahead and ask for the pre-nup. She'll dump you immediately, but you'll save yourself a lot of trouble.


p.s. if your net worth is more than 100K, then do it anyway, no matter what y is.

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

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i wouldnt get married in the usa with or without a prenup

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yes, I'm a cynic

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

It depends on the kind of prenup you want. If you're considering a Donald Trump, you-might-be-a-golddigger-so-you-must-sign-this-document-to-marry-me prenup, it's a bad idea no matter what. If you're being realistic and want to sit down with your fiancee to figure out what's fair and set out an agreement to avoid ugly litigation if the worst happens, then it's always a good idea.

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

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Ah yeah, let's pretend you're Michael Streehan here. Or someone with significant net worth.

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Prenups aren't just for people with significant net worth. In fact, it may be MORE important for people without significant net worth, because the property they DO have is that much more valuable to them.

E.g., if Melinda Gates gets half of Bill Gates's fortune, it'll be a huge hit in theory. But in reality, $20B is still a lot of money.

OTOH, if you're a middle class family with only three significant assets (a house and two cars), losing the house and a car seriously damages you.

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

dont u ever listen to Kanye West?

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

I'm a chick and think this is a great idea - its very mature and keeps things from getting messy.

Then again, I make more money than most guys I date so...

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

Not a terrible idea but they aren't an iron-clad defense like people think they are.

My grandfather passed last month and after my grandmother passed 10 years ago, he re-married with a pre-nup. It was created by a lawyer and is pretty much worthless because of state laws and conditions that must be met for a pre-nup to be valid.

If you're going to get one I suggest you find a lawyer that has written a pre-nup that has successfully held up in court.

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ah yeah, let's pretend you're Michael Streehan here. Or someone with significant net worth.

[/ QUOTE ]

Prenups aren't just for people with significant net worth. In fact, it may be MORE important for people without significant net worth, because the property they DO have is that much more valuable to them.

E.g., if Melinda Gates gets half of Bill Gates's fortune, it'll be a huge hit in theory. But in reality, $20B is still a lot of money.

OTOH, if you're a middle class family with only three significant assets (a house and two cars), losing the house and a car seriously damages you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont believe a car is an asset.

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

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I dont believe a car is an asset.

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It's a doodad, amirite?

It's an asset insofar as it has value and would be a pain to lose in a divorce.

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ah yeah, let's pretend you're Michael Streehan here. Or someone with significant net worth.

[/ QUOTE ]

Prenups aren't just for people with significant net worth. In fact, it may be MORE important for people without significant net worth, because the property they DO have is that much more valuable to them.

E.g., if Melinda Gates gets half of Bill Gates's fortune, it'll be a huge hit in theory. But in reality, $20B is still a lot of money.

OTOH, if you're a middle class family with only three significant assets (a house and two cars), losing the house and a car seriously damages you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont believe a car is an asset.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can I have your car then?

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

Since cars begin their depreciation in value from the very second you drive off the lot and continue to depreciate is the reason why i say they are not assets.

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

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asset

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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

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depends on your net worth [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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VERY WRONG The answer mostly likely should be
depends on your future net worth. Remember, what you owned before the marriage is not in jeopardy. its what you gain during the course of your marriage. if you are planning on staying married for at least 5-10 years, even if you dont have anything now, you will have a lot to lose should you get divorced in 10 years.

Not getting a prenup is like going out driving without an insurance.

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

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dont u ever listen to chris rock?

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Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

Just marry an heiress and do not sign anything.

edit -- If neither of you is bringing much in way of assets into the union, then it is really a non-issue.

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just marry an heiress and do not sign anything.

edit -- If neither of you is bringing much in way of assets into the union, then it is really a non-issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true. Again I repeat. Its NOT what you are bringing into the marriage.

Case in example:
Guy going to law school, broke ass and in debt.
Girl works at a middle level management in a company making 60000 a year.

Should you prenup or not.

I would hope the answer is yes. Even though you are bringing nothing currently in the union, in 10 years you would be making FAR MORE money than her.

Prenup protects what you "acquire" during the course of the union and not what you brought into it.

---------------
Disclaimer: Thats my understanding of prenup and divorce laws though I am no lawyer. Please correct me if i am wrong.

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

iamb,

My understanding is that what is acquired during the union is (and should be) split. It's the pre-marital assets that are protected. State laws do play a major role here.

But I could be wrong.

Oh and your insurance example is simply awful.

J

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

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I dont believe a car is an asset.

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Your Honor, as evidenced by the testimony of my expert witness Mr. Runyonave, cars are not assets. (Runyonave Depo, p.1) My client Larry Lemon owns nothing outside of his many dealerships; therefore he will be unable to provide any spousal support.

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

Anything you own is an asset. It may not be worth much but it is still an asset.

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

Even worse is having a car with a hefty balance due, losing it in the divorce and being saddled with all the remaining payments. It may no longer be an asset for you but it is an asset to your ex wifes new boyfriend.

Jimbo

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I honestly think that if you are seriously considering a pre-nup, you should seriously question whether you should be getting married.

I realise that around 50% of marriages will end in divorce. Many of these people probably got married for the wrong reasons (societal pressures, shortsightedness, etc). It's a pretty massive commitment that shouldnt be taken lightly.

If your getting married for other reasons (for a green card, or just a big party, etc) then the other party should be understanding of the need for a pre-nup.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't personally have one, and i actually don't wish I did, but i think they're a good idea for any couple where one has much more money than the other going into the marriage. Romance is great and all, but at some point realism and maturity have to set in. Most people at least know someone close to them who has had to deal with divorce. It is a pretty awful experience. The pre-nup eliminates a lot of this pain, if God forbid it were to happen.

I don't think it means you don't love someone if you suggest a pre-nup. It shows a sense of realism and an awareness that sometimes in life things don't work out. If your spouse-to-be can't handle this, then she may not be for you.

If i were about to marry some heiress to a fortune worth hundreds of millions, I would EXPECT to sign a pre-nup. It's part of life.

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

[ QUOTE ]
How does OOT feel about pre-nups? If you really trust a girl, is it below the belt to ask for one? I don't have a personal situation now, but I'd love to hear from some people who have experience in this sort of thing.

Let's hear it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not asking.

Re: Pre-Nup: Terrible Idea?
 

[ QUOTE ]
How does OOT feel about pre-nups? If you really trust a girl, is it below the belt to ask for one? I don't have a personal situation now, but I'd love to hear from some people who have experience in this sort of thing.

Let's hear it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I insist on them before every marriage.