Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

villain in this hand is TeeDitty aka Tuan Le. Im sure many of you are familiar with Tuan's play from tv, it is very hyper aggressive and sometimes he overdoes it. In online cash he plays pretty similair to that but a little more subdued and a little less bluff happy (still pretty bluff happy tho). So far in this head's up session I have been playing pretty straightforward as I always have in the few sessions Tuan and I have played, mostly because I am very tentative to bluff Tuan b/c he doesn't seem to be a fan of the fold button. Also, during the 15 minutes we have been playing Tuan has been playing better than I have ever seen him play online (maybe he is getting hit by the deck) and playing less crazy than usual.

50/100 10k effective

Hero:10s7h

Hero raises to 300. Villain calls.

Flop: 10d5s4s

Villain checks. Hero bets 500. Villain raises to 1500. Hero calls.

Turn: 9c.(3600 pot)

Villain bets 2200. Hero.....

If you decide to call are you snap-calling a river shove on a blank river? What about a spade?

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

Fold flop

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

I think on the turn I like fold > shove > call. I think he is shoving almost every river and a lot of them are going to look ugly so I really hate calling. If he has been running you over and not showing down a lot of hands a shove is fine.

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

shove the turn--obv he is never folding a better hand, but i think he has a draw a vl % of the time

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

ohhhh these are the situations that give me big problems HU against crazy aggro players.

i prolly call the turn and see what card hits on the river. it really depends on the card though and whatever random instinct my stomach tells me.

i'd also review how he played hands in the past really quickly. his turn bet seems pretty small for a board like that.

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

all in on flop. with tuan le i am 95 % he r/r p/f w/ jacks and up. im very confident ur ahead and think u should jam it.

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

Teeditty is Tuan Le yeah or at least some of the time. Greenstein made this post the other day:

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Multiple people play most of the unnamed big accounts. Tuan Le told me people fight over playing his account, because they know they will get paid off.

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So beware [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

i would like to hear some arguments for folding but in my opinion it is really really bad in this spot with tuan's range here.

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

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i would like to hear some arguments for folding but in my opinion it is really really bad in this spot with tuan's range here.

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These sorts of spots are all about how the action has been going recently. If you think folding is really bad, then fine, shove, but I think calling is horrible.

Don't get the feeling that you can just never fold top pair heads up against a crazy lag. That plays right into their overall strategy.

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

i agree that fold and shove are better than calling. its really kinda meehhh because this is the type of hand when i wish u were deeper into a HU match so u could a better grip depending on the flow, history, etc.

i guess i just dont know tuan well enough but a fold just seems best at this point. you say considering his range its bad to fold. this may be true overall but i dont think u can say that this early on in the much. I dont think your being exploited badly if u just lay this down at this point without a better read of where your at.

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

don't know exactly how aggro he is, but I'd say a standard range for an aggro opponent hu here is draw/random two pair set, and a slowplayed overpair (very unlikely). He also has a straight bluff a small % of the time but I think he would bet bigger on the turn with a bluff unless he post-oaks. Given that weighted range, I think this is a turn fold.

dlpnyc21

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

I think that a random two pair like 45 bets a lot bigger on turn for fear of being counterfeited or for fear of a spade coming and either giving him the losing hand or killing his action. I also think that top pair strong kicker bets bigger on the turn for similar reasons. As to whether this could be a stone-cold bluff I think the chances are probably better than you think but I agree it is not a huge part of his range.

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

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I think that a random two pair like 45 bets a lot bigger on turn for fear of being counterfeited or for fear of a spade coming and either giving him the losing hand or killing his action. I also think that top pair strong kicker bets bigger on the turn for similar reasons. As to whether this could be a stone-cold bluff I think the chances are probably better than you think but I agree it is not a huge part of his range.

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While this may be true (I don't really think it is), it is not an important enough point to hinge your decision on it.

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

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I think that a random two pair like 45 bets a lot bigger on turn for fear of being counterfeited or for fear of a spade coming and either giving him the losing hand or killing his action. I also think that top pair strong kicker bets bigger on the turn for similar reasons. As to whether this could be a stone-cold bluff I think the chances are probably better than you think but I agree it is not a huge part of his range.

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While this may be true (I don't really think it is), it is not an important enough point to hinge your decision on it.

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It may not be 100 percent true but for the most part I think it is a pretty good assesment of his play. While he is very aggressive he's really not that tricky or good for that matter.

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

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all in on flop. with tuan le i am 95 % he r/r p/f w/ jacks and up. im very confident ur ahead and think u should jam it.

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shut up limit newbie

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

I don't know what his betsizing his like, but this turn bet looks like he wants you to shove.

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

i think you are vastly vastly ahead of his range here, and with these stacks, i think a shove is far preferable to "seeing what falls on the turn"

i think it's a great two-way bet in that he folds a couple worse hands like better tens, T8, JT, QT quite often. but i think far more often he's priced in to call his 15 outer hand when he would have actually c/f had he missed on the river. i like a shove much much much more than a call, i think the only question is between shove and fold.

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

Fslexcduck I like your reasoning, the only problem is that with the pot odds being offered I'm not sure how likely he is to fold JT or QT.

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

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As to whether this could be a stone-cold bluff...

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This would be an extremally bad board to through a stone-cold bluff at since it contains both flush and straight draws so I don't think it is one.

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

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As to whether this could be a stone-cold bluff...

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This would be an extremally bad board to through a stone-cold bluff at since it contains both flush and straight draws so I don't think it is one.

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yeah, cause people never bluff on scary boards aginst pfr's [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

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yeah, cause people never bluff on scary boards aginst pfr's

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Any pair will fare much better on a drawy board hence it is less likely to move someone off a hand.

A drawy board is not scary at all.

This is a scary board to be raised on : K77r
when you hold QQ or a bad K. Either you are up against a bluff or you are way way behind.

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

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Don't get the feeling that you can just never fold top pair heads up against a crazy lag. That plays right into their overall strategy.

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Regularly folding hands as strong as top pair does as well though...

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

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i think you are vastly vastly ahead of his range here, and with these stacks, i think a shove is far preferable to "seeing what falls on the turn"

i think it's a great two-way bet in that he folds a couple worse hands like better tens, T8, JT, QT quite often. but i think far more often he's priced in to call his 15 outer hand when he would have actually c/f had he missed on the river. i like a shove much much much more than a call, i think the only question is between shove and fold.

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I'm confused, it sounds like you are saying its a good thing he is priced in to call and will make a +ev call?

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

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i think you are vastly vastly ahead of his range here, and with these stacks, i think a shove is far preferable to "seeing what falls on the turn"

i think it's a great two-way bet in that he folds a couple worse hands like better tens, T8, JT, QT quite often. but i think far more often he's priced in to call his 15 outer hand when he would have actually c/f had he missed on the river. i like a shove much much much more than a call, i think the only question is between shove and fold.

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I'm confused, it sounds like you are saying its a good thing he is priced in to call and will make a +ev call?

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The size of the pot makes it +EV for both players to get it in. But we're still 65%+ to win and thus want to get the chips in.

As for the hand, I don't think he folds QT/JT but I'm also not totally convinced he fires the turn again with those hands. I like a push, but don't hate a fold.

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

Do YOU (anyone) bet the turn with QT/JT here? I believe if you do its with full intentions of felting it.

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

Thanks, basic stuff. I've been up for too long.

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

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i think you are vastly vastly ahead of his range here, and with these stacks, i think a shove is far preferable to "seeing what falls on the turn"

i think it's a great two-way bet in that he folds a couple worse hands like better tens, T8, JT, QT quite often. but i think far more often he's priced in to call his 15 outer hand when he would have actually c/f had he missed on the river. i like a shove much much much more than a call, i think the only question is between shove and fold.

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I'm confused, it sounds like you are saying its a good thing he is priced in to call and will make a +ev call?

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he will be +EV to call for the pot, but any chips we get in, we get in as 2:1 favorite for 1:1 on our money so yes we want to put as many chips in as possible in that case. the main point being the assumption that he check/folds if he misses.

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

what is the likely hood it isnt him on his account?

BarryG did say ealier this week that people give arms and legs to play on ppls accounts like this cause they know they are getting paid off everytime.

p.s. this also seems like one of those times.

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

if what barry said is true, it seems really really dirty to me.

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

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if what barry said is true, it seems really really dirty to me.

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It's obviously true in the general sense; do you remember when JMan was playing "Roland DeWolfe" (sp?) 300/600 NL but was playing Patrik Antonius?

Re: Heads up vs. Tuan Le
 

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if what barry said is true, it seems really really dirty to me.

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It's obviously true in the general sense; do you remember when JMan was playing "Roland DeWolfe" (sp?) 300/600 NL but was playing Patrik Antonius?

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got youuuuuuuuuu. i think against someone with a range as wide as tuan's you should shove here to price in draws before the river. plus, he's asian, so you might get looked up by worse, esp if you're capable of semi-bluff shoving here and all that.