Another gem against betgo
 

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO ($45)
Button ($74.60)
SB ($178.15)
BB ($59)
UTG ($55.50)
UTG+1 ($81.40)
MP1 ($97)
Hero ($100)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to $3</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $12</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to $31</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $100</font>, MP1 calls $66 (All-In).

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

Why?

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

AA amirite?

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

Highly doubt he'd have posted if he had AA. Either that or hero = betgo?

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

Shouldn't we be showing some results? It's really hard to be able to tell anything here..Unless of course you want to know if it is a good play or not, and I think it is because of:
1) Fold equity when you play back
2) You obv have history and prob have a good read to know what to do here so you prob had good judgment on it

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

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Why?

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Because I am far ahead of his range and he will call with worse hands.

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

ew

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

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Shouldn't we be showing some results?

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Umm...that would be results oriented?

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

We have to assume his range is at least TT+ and AQ+ and probably worse and that he will call with any hand in this range.

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

results.

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO ($45)
Button ($74.60)
SB ($178.15)
BB ($59)
UTG ($55.50)
UTG+1 ($81.40)
MP1 ($97)
Hero ($100)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to $3</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $12</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to $31</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $100</font>, MP1 calls $66 (All-In).

Flop: ($198.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Turn: ($198.50) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: ($198.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $198.50

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
MP1 has Qd Ac (one pair, queens).
Hero has Js Jd (one pair, jacks).
Outcome: MP1 wins $195.50. Hero wins $3. </font>

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

Jacks is behind the range that you mentioned, according to Pokerstove. This play really seems like gambling just to gamble, it's certainly not a big edge either way, unless betgo gets really crazy.

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We have to assume his range is at least TT+ and AQ+ and probably worse and that he will call with any hand in this range.

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Re: Another gem against betgo
 

I haven't got pokerstove, but that range is 32 hands where you're a small winner, 6 you are clear fav, 6 is evens, and 18 he's well ahead.

ok if you include 88+ you're ahead, otherwise not.

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

Your old avatar was much more pimping, IMHO

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

never played w/ betgo, but you really think TT/JJ is in his 4-bet/shoving range?

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

Why is this being posted exactly? Is it to demonstrate how bad betgo is supposed to be or is it just some kind of running friendly joke between the two of you?

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

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never played w/ betgo, but you really think TT/JJ is in his 4-bet/shoving range?

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Oh yeah.

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

What's your stars name?

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

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Why is this being posted exactly? Is it to demonstrate how bad betgo is supposed to be or is it just some kind of running friendly joke between the two of you?


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I'm trying to find ways to exploit his style. I'm not sure that pushing here with jacks was the best way to go even though my result was good.

I 3-bet him light and he knows that. So now he 4-bets me light so pushing jacks against betgo may or may not be +EV for me.

FWIW I think he 4bets here with a lot worse hands too that he probably folds to a shove.

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

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Why is this being posted exactly? Is it to demonstrate how bad betgo is supposed to be or is it just some kind of running friendly joke between the two of you?

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Seems like just a BBV post to me.

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

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Seems like just a BBV post to me.


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Get the [censored] out of my thread you worthless piece of [censored].

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

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Why is this being posted exactly? Is it to demonstrate how bad betgo is supposed to be or is it just some kind of running friendly joke between the two of you?


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I'm trying to find ways to exploit his style. I'm not sure that pushing here with jacks was the best way to go even though my result was good.

I 3-bet him light and he knows that. So now he 4-bets me light so pushing jacks against betgo may or may not be +EV for me.

FWIW I think he 4bets here with a lot worse hands too that he probably folds to a shove.

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Ok, the title of the post sounds like you are insulting him.

I mean I'm sure that your play was fine, especially if you are correct about his ranges, which it seems like you probably are.

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

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Ok, the title of the post sounds like you are insulting him.

I mean I'm sure that your play was fine, especially if you are correct about his ranges, which it seems like you probably are.


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On the surface it looks like we both played the hand like monkeeys. But there is a lot of metagame involved in this hand that makes it kinda complex.

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

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I'm trying to find ways to exploit his style.

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And the reason why you're looking to for excuses to mix it up with marginal hands against the best player at your table rather than cultivating all the "low hanging fruit" is...?

We get it. TAGs have bigger e-penises than LAGs. Too bad it's now costing you actual money instead of just silly posts to keep trying to prove it.

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

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Ok, the title of the post sounds like you are insulting him.

I mean I'm sure that your play was fine, especially if you are correct about his ranges, which it seems like you probably are.


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On the surface it looks like we both played the hand like monkeeys. But there is a lot of metagame involved in this hand that makes it kinda complex.

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I guess it is just some multi-level thinking, right?

He knows that you RR light and you know that he knows that so you shove light.

Is there something more to that I am missing?

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

I think Fossilman did some analyses of these sort of aggro-arms races a long time ago. Can't remember where. I think the answer is roughly 'stop and go'.

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

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We get it. TAGs have bigger e-penises than LAGs. Too bad it's now costing you actual money instead of just silly posts to keep trying to prove it.

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It is not costing me money if it is +EV. Who said betgo was the best at the table? FWIW I think I do extremely well playing pots against him.

If you're scared to play against good players, maybe you should drop down to 50NL.

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

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I think Fossilman did some analyses of these sort of aggro-arms races a long time ago. Can't remember where. I think the answer is roughly 'stop and go'.

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Now that I think about it, this sounds like an interesting alternative strategy for situations like this one. I'm gonna try to dig that up...

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

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I think Fossilman did some analyses of these sort of aggro-arms races a long time ago. Can't remember where. I think the answer is roughly 'stop and go'.

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Now that I think about it, this sounds like an interesting alternative strategy for situations like this one. I'm gonna try to dig that up...

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Stop and going JJ is pretty bad here. It might or might not have gotten me to fold here. However, in general you don't stop and go middle pps, because you only get folds when you are ahead.

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

let me have the link if you find it please.

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

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I think Fossilman did some analyses of these sort of aggro-arms races a long time ago. Can't remember where. I think the answer is roughly 'stop and go'.

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Now that I think about it, this sounds like an interesting alternative strategy for situations like this one. I'm gonna try to dig that up...

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Yes, I think you should do that. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

and share here...

What is your initial thoughts as to why a stop n go would be better?

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

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Stop and going JJ is pretty bad here. It might or might not have gotten me to fold here. However, in general you don't stop and go middle pps, because you only get folds when you are ahead.

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So you like the jacks push?

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

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Stop and going JJ is pretty bad here. It might or might not have gotten me to fold here. However, in general you don't stop and go middle pps, because you only get folds when you are ahead.

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So you like the jacks push?

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I think it is push or fold with JJ. Generally, I would fold, but it could be a push based on your read of the initial raiser.

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

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I think Fossilman did some analyses of these sort of aggro-arms races a long time ago. Can't remember where. I think the answer is roughly 'stop and go'.

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Now that I think about it, this sounds like an interesting alternative strategy for situations like this one. I'm gonna try to dig that up...

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Stop and going JJ is pretty bad here. It might or might not have gotten me to fold here. However, in general you don't stop and go middle pps, because you only get folds when you are ahead.

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I could be wrong about what he came up with, or even if it was him.

I don't remember playing a stopngo in FR ever, FWIW.

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

You guys are totally misusing the term "Stop+Go". It's only really applicable when out of position.

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

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I don't remember playing a stopngo in FR ever, FWIW.


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Probably in MTT.

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

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You guys are totally misusing the term "Stop+Go". It's only really applicable when out of position.

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I'm sure I am, but you get the idea.

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

btw I suspect that it's correct to simply fold PF most of the time. -edit misread and somehow though the positions were earlier.

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

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You guys are totally misusing the term "Stop+Go". It's only really applicable when out of position.

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Since they were talking stop and go, I assumed he was in the blinds. Can't stop and go here. If you call, I probably push the flop or bet enought to pot commit me.

Re: Another gem against betgo
 

I play with betgo also and I think pokerboy's play is pretty good considering that is was against Betgo. Betgo makes some questionable plays and I can't really see how he thinks that calling here is very profitable especially against a player like pokerboy. I am in no way saying you are a bad player Betgo just that you are very aggro and actually you have to add SC's and a few more hands to Betgo's range. I have seen 3 bet waaaaaaay more than A-Q+ and 10-10+ quite a few times.
I say good play pokerboy you just got unlucky.