Antisemitism thread
 

I disagree with it being moved to this forum, particularly after just one post which, in and of itself, was not at all over the line. IMO you have to at least give people a chance to respond before prematurely locking the discussiion, especially with an issue that's bound to be a little heated. Otherwise we'd never be able to discuss anything but the same ole AC threads.

Re: Antisemitism thread
 

1. It wasn't the one post. That thread was on our radar from the get-go when Felix starts talking about how the "Jews killed Jesus". We let it go initially, but it was always borderline.

2. It has been made clear that giving people a chance to respond to anti-semitism isn't good enough. We must protect those unsophisticated enough to parse the arguments.

3. Jman initially locked the thread so I'm not really at liberty to open the thread back up to discussion. I opted to move it here and tempban Peter rather than leave the discussion up.

Re: Antisemitism thread
 

The whole thread was basically about one of the most vicious lies that has been used to perpetrate antisemitism for two millenium, that Jews killed Jesus. And with Peter666 and Snowball posting in it, it was taking a really nasty turn.

Re: Antisemitism thread
 

obvious lock imo

Re: Antisemitism thread
 

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2. It has been made clear that giving people a chance to respond to anti-semitism isn't good enough. We must protect those unsophisticated enough to parse the arguments.

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I'm going to go ahead and have to say this is totally [censored] weak. Like really, really [censored] weak.

Re: Antisemitism thread
 

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The whole thread was basically about one of the most vicious lies that has been used to perpetrate antisemitism for two millenium, that Jews killed Jesus. And with Peter666 and Snowball posting in it, it was taking a really nasty turn.

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Hypothetically if you were interested in ending anti-Semitism, squelching debates on the topic and moving them to the Mod Forum... prob not the best way of going about things.

Jews killed Jesus... oh no! There's like a whopping 3 Christians in the entire politics forum and really, in their entire life, they have probably never heard that the Jews killed Jesus. Thanks for sparing their virgin eyes and minds.

Re: Antisemitism thread
 

xorbie its like a thread being started asking why people hate blacks. So someone says historically they steal more and dont pay child support. And then someone else says more crap about them bringing it upon themselves due to their actions. Those people would be banned pretty fast.

Re: Antisemitism thread
 

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2. It has been made clear that giving people a chance to respond to anti-semitism isn't good enough. We must protect those unsophisticated enough to parse the arguments.

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I'm going to go ahead and have to say this is totally [censored] weak. Like really, really [censored] weak.

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I clearly erred when I suggested you as Politics mod. Not only is this the law of the land, it's job #1 in Politics. Haven't you been keeping track of the ATF drama? We've been over this so many times it makes my head hurt. Mason has made at least a half dozen posts basically saying the same thing.

Re: Antisemitism thread
 

if this were somehow a bbv thread, it would get dealt with thusly:

#1: I quote the "jews killed jesus" post and reply with something along the lines of "if jesus were around to see the amount of stupidity it takes to make that statement, he'd probably kill himself, or possibly half the retards in this thread (Old Testament style)"

#2: lock thread

#3: deal with criticism about thread via further public mockery

unfortunately, anti-Semitism is a way of life for some people and a pretty ingrained mindset that the Internet is not going to change for a bunch of others. that's life. on the other hand, I don't need to deal with the russian equivalent of backwoods hicks (actually, the russian equivalent is way worse), whether it's by coddling them, preventing them from posting (that just makes the gullible think they have a point), or by letting them keep throwing poo at each other. instead, personally, I just mock them until they either shut up or reveal their stupidity for everyone to see.

that's just me, though. I have a very thick skin.

Re: Antisemitism thread
 

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xorbie its like a thread being started asking why people hate blacks. So someone says historically they steal more and dont pay child support. And then someone else says more crap about them bringing it upon themselves due to their actions. Those people would be banned pretty fast.

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I realize you think this is going to convince me. I still think it's really, really stupid.

Re: Antisemitism thread
 

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2. It has been made clear that giving people a chance to respond to anti-semitism isn't good enough. We must protect those unsophisticated enough to parse the arguments.

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I'm going to go ahead and have to say this is totally [censored] weak. Like really, really [censored] weak.

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I clearly erred when I suggested you as Politics mod. Not only is this the law of the land, it's job #1 in Politics. Haven't you been keeping track of the ATF drama? We've been over this so many times it makes my head hurt. Mason has made at least a half dozen posts basically saying the same thing.

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Yeah I'm sorry that you guys are clearly incpabable of seeing the difference between "screw all the black people, bunch of lazy stealing [censored] n*ggers" and "well historically people have said this and that about black people and perpetuated this belief by doing such and such".

Your argument is actually disturbing. You really are every bit as bad as the ACers claim. If Mason comes here and says the same thing, I'm not going to change my mind. On the hand, there is this condascending and absurd attitude that people might be tricked into racism if not for your saving graces. There there's the fact that you are using this innane policy to lock threads that overtly mention racism and racist concepts in an attempt at intellectually honest discussion, but you'll allow all sorts of bigoted statements continue on, so long as they are implied and shrouded in complaint about "PC liberals".

I can't figure out which is more infuriating, but in the future spare me the idiocy. You can continue to mod like this, but I won't stop complaining.

Re: Antisemitism thread
 

I have a "friend" that we can't say anything remotely bad to (joking or not) because he instantly thinks we are only saying it because we hate him. Boy is he fun to be around.

The point I think is that by taking some jabs here and there we would think more highly of him than we do when he just cries about every negative comment, so we don't do it. He has quieted all the comments, but lost everybody's respect.

Re: Antisemitism thread
 

This is so close it really shouldnt be an issue. Anyone who thinks what the posters were posting is fine is an idiot. Anyone who also got really offended is an idiot. It was all so borderline that it doesnt matter what the mods do in this case. There are reasonable arguments to be made for each case.

Re: Antisemitism thread
 

Obviously I disagree. This is not even remotely borderline. I find your position idiotic.

Re: Antisemitism thread
 

I'm with xorbie here. I faced a ton of real anti-semitism when I lived in Kansas City (more so than in Oregon or Georgia for some reason), and while it offeded me, it also helped me differentiate between actual harm and ignorant opinions. This thread squarely fell in the latter category and therefore xorbie is right that squashing anything in this territory is going overboard.

Re: Antisemitism thread
 

So we are just supposed to let posters who promote ignorant opinions continue to post? Because by doing so, you just create more ingorant people, who in this case will believe jews killed jesus.

Just because it isnt blatantly racist, even if the guy isnt racist, its bad because he believes it and writing crap like that makes others believe it.


Letting it slide is really really bad, and imo is how societies get to the later points where you wonder where it all went wrong.

Re: Antisemitism thread
 

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So we are just supposed to let posters who promote ignorant opinions continue to post?

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If we didn't do this, there wouldn't be an OOT, an EDF, a BBV4L...

75% of those forums involve posters spouting ignorant opinions. Let the discussion happen and reason will show its face.

Re: Antisemitism thread
 

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This is so close it really shouldnt be an issue. Anyone who thinks what the posters were posting is fine is an idiot. Anyone who also got really offended is an idiot. It was all so borderline that it doesnt matter what the mods do in this case. There are reasonable arguments to be made for each case.

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It was borderline, thats why I didn't lock it immediately, and decided to see where it went. I didn't like were it was going, so I locked it.

Re: Antisemitism thread
 

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So we are just supposed to let posters who promote ignorant opinions continue to post?

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If we didn't do this, there wouldn't be an OOT, an EDF, a BBV4L...

75% of those forums involve posters spouting ignorant opinions. Let the discussion happen and reason will show its face.

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Reason rarely shows its face when discussing certain issues.

Re: Antisemitism thread
 

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So we are just supposed to let posters who promote ignorant opinions continue to post? Because by doing so, you just create more ingorant people, who in this case will believe jews killed jesus.

Just because it isnt blatantly racist, even if the guy isnt racist, its bad because he believes it and writing crap like that makes others believe it.


Letting it slide is really really bad, and imo is how societies get to the later points where you wonder where it all went wrong.

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Come on man.. seriously. This is a forum on the internet, we aren't framing foreign policy for the coming millenium here.

Are we supposed to lock any topic that says "I think 9/11 is a conspiracy"? How about "Governments are all evil, go anarchism"? How about "Affirmative action is a morally bankrupt public policy"?

There's misinformaiton in probably every thread in Politics. It's on the news, it's in every crevice of the internet. Trust me that shutting down selective threads isn't going to help anything.

The added irony of only shutting down threads about racism against a group of people who supposedly are over-zealous in pointing out racism against them isn't lost on me, and I'm sure it's not lost on others.

Re: Antisemitism thread
 

I never said it was my opinion to only shut down threads that promote dangerous and false views about jews. I believe every thread like that should be shut down. Any thread that propagates lies, especially lies which have caused millions of people to be exterminated should be locked.

"Governments are evil, go anarchism" is totally different. Its not dangerous against a specifc group of people. In fact, none of your examples are.

Re: Antisemitism thread
 

iron is right about this. There's a reason the politics forum was closed for a short time, and Mason doesn't want stuff like that on 2+2. Anyone who's curious about the opinions on this issue from around that time should go back and read some of the older threads.

I'll try to come up with some links if I have time this morning.