A slightly unusual stop and go
 

Unusual since I have more chips. I'm smith2940

Table '47183720 2' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: atomic_punk8 (1245 in chips)
Seat 2: smith2940 (2753 in chips)
Seat 3: LovinPoke (1275 in chips)
Seat 4: lieutenant76 (2765 in chips)
Seat 5: banchees5 (1987 in chips)
Seat 6: schneemannnx (1265 in chips)
Seat 7: surveyor x (1220 in chips)
Seat 8: lenin5 (2275 in chips)
Seat 9: olmanbrenner (630 in chips)
atomic_punk8: posts small blind 50
smith2940: posts big blind 100

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to smith2940 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

5 folds
olmanbrenner: raises 100 to 200
atomic_punk8: folds
smith2940: calls 100

*** FLOP ***
7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
smith2940: bets 2553 and is all-in

Re: A slightly unusual stop and go
 

Boy this is really odd, but I think I like it.

Stop and go rules are pretty complex, but I seem to recall that if they are likely to call preflop to a shove, but will fold post flop to the stop and go then its a reasonable alternative.

This I think is +EV... I think you get looked up by any pair bigger than yours or anything he hit with the board, but AK, AJ, A9 might fold here... possible he will fold a paired 7 or a pair of 88, which is obviously good for you....

Re: A slightly unusual stop and go
 

this is awful trying to win a 400 chip pot for 2.5k

Re: A slightly unusual stop and go
 

[ QUOTE ]
this is awful trying to win a 400 chip pot for 2.5k

[/ QUOTE ] I guess I don't understand the rules. I didn't think that I would have to give him all my chips if I lost. I thought I would get to keep some.

Re: A slightly unusual stop and go
 

misread if you are going to do this why dont you just raise another 400 preflop and get his stack?

Re: A slightly unusual stop and go
 

I don't think the risk/reward is good overbetting more than twice pot. Just reraise allin preflop.

Re: A slightly unusual stop and go
 

[ QUOTE ]
misread if you are going to do this why dont you just raise another 400 preflop and get his stack?

[/ QUOTE ]

cause hes never going to fold preflop, and say he has 88. repop and you likely lose. on this flop, would you call? look at it from his donk point of view if hes minraising with that kinda stack, he likely doesnt understand short stack play and can easily fold. lookin gat his OPR he shows a lifetime loss, but still plays a lot per day...

but i dont think this is a stop and go spot. minraise with 6 BB is likely to be a very big hand

Re: A slightly unusual stop and go
 

any hand he folds on most flops you wanted to be in anyway. Stick it in PF.

Re: A slightly unusual stop and go
 

The only hands that really disliked that flop were 88,99, JJ, AK, AJ. So you risk your entire stack (when you're really not short stacked here yet) on the basis that about half his raise range is beat ? That's not winning poker.

Re: A slightly unusual stop and go
 

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The only hands that really disliked that flop were 88,99, JJ, AK, AJ. So you risk your entire stack (when you're really not short stacked here yet) on the basis that about half his raise range is beat ? That's not winning poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Look at the stack sizes again. Effective stack is 630. I just shove pf, I don't think a S&G gives us any fold equity against hands that we want would actually want fold equity against.

Re: A slightly unusual stop and go
 

I don't think he is deep enough for this to work. And the BTN is short stacked so the push=t430. Because he's so short I just shove PF.

Re: A slightly unusual stop and go
 

push preflop, stop trying to actually think.

it's a donkament. no thinking necessary.

Re: A slightly unusual stop and go
 

I like it.

It's really as simple as this: You're getting your money in with this spot either way and there is no way he's folding preflop at this point. He is going to call you with KJ, Q10, and a nice variety of trash that he's going WTF it if his ruse doesn't work. OTOH, players like this tend to get squeamish when "bad" flops come. What once was gold with 77 now becomes bad when the flop comes out Q K 10.

So, why give him five cards in this spot when you get get some FE with 3. If you are planning on playing this ANYWAY, you might as well get some FE on your underpair as it is. When you push, and he has you beat after the flop(which he would have called with anyway), you still get your turn/river regardless.

Re: A slightly unusual stop and go
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like it.

It's really as simple as this: You're getting your money in with this spot either way and there is no way he's folding preflop at this point. He is going to call you with KJ, Q10, and a nice variety of trash that he's going WTF it if his ruse doesn't work. OTOH, players like this tend to get squeamish when "bad" flops come. What once was gold with 77 now becomes bad when the flop comes out Q K 10.

So, why give him five cards in this spot when you get get some FE with 3. If you are planning on playing this ANYWAY, you might as well get some FE on your underpair as it is. When you push, and he has you beat after the flop(which he would have called with anyway), you still get your turn/river regardless.

[/ QUOTE ]

STOP TRYING TO [censored] THINK.

HE HAS RANDOM ASS UNPAIRED CARDS THAT HE'LL FOLD (CORRECTLY - WHICH IS BAD FOR YOU) 1045320523052X MORE OFTEN THAN HE HAS A BETTER PAIR THAT FOLDS.

LIKE ARE YOU JOKING? YOU IGNORE THE TIMES HE HAS A2, K8, ETC ETC ETC SIMPLY BECAUSE HE MAY FOLD 77 SOMETIMES?

BWAHAHAHAHA

Re: A slightly unusual stop and go
 

decisions like whether to push preflop or stop and go in a pot this small vs. a donk like that frankly have so little effect on your bottom like that their relative merits aren't worth debating

Re: A slightly unusual stop and go
 

[ QUOTE ]
decisions like whether to push preflop or stop and go in a pot this small vs. a donk like that frankly have so little effect on your bottom like that their relative merits aren't worth debating

[/ QUOTE ]
This is incorrect. Stop and going for more than twice pot with 66 is a really bad play, and much worse than pushing preflop.

Re: A slightly unusual stop and go
 

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[ QUOTE ]
decisions like whether to push preflop or stop and go in a pot this small vs. a donk like that frankly have so little effect on your bottom like that their relative merits aren't worth debating

[/ QUOTE ]
This is incorrect. Stop and going for more than twice pot with 66 is a really bad play, and much worse than pushing preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

i [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] you

and yes, nath is right. this is like arguing about whether to buy mayonnaise in bulk because you'll save $0.45

Re: A slightly unusual stop and go
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
decisions like whether to push preflop or stop and go in a pot this small vs. a donk like that frankly have so little effect on your bottom like that their relative merits aren't worth debating

[/ QUOTE ]
This is incorrect. Stop and going for more than twice pot with 66 is a really bad play, and much worse than pushing preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]
Since you've said this twice already, I'll say you need to reread the effective stack sizes.

Re: A slightly unusual stop and go
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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decisions like whether to push preflop or stop and go in a pot this small vs. a donk like that frankly have so little effect on your bottom like that their relative merits aren't worth debating

[/ QUOTE ]
This is incorrect. Stop and going for more than twice pot with 66 is a really bad play, and much worse than pushing preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]
Since you've said this twice already, I'll say you need to reread the effective stack sizes.

[/ QUOTE ]

haha, you got levelled.

twice.

dork.

Re: A slightly unusual stop and go
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
decisions like whether to push preflop or stop and go in a pot this small vs. a donk like that frankly have so little effect on your bottom like that their relative merits aren't worth debating

[/ QUOTE ]
This is incorrect. Stop and going for more than twice pot with 66 is a really bad play, and much worse than pushing preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]
Since you've said this twice already, I'll say you need to reread the effective stack sizes.

[/ QUOTE ]
You are right. I got raiser's stack size mixed up with SB's. What was usual about the stack sizes for a stop and go in OP's post. I don't get that then. The fact that OP has a lot of chips is irrelevant.

The SNG is still not good, because you don't SNG with middle pps.

Re: A slightly unusual stop and go
 

[ QUOTE ]
haha, you got levelled.

twice.

dork.

[/ QUOTE ]
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1037/cubertqm8.gif

"I doubt that very much!"

Re: A slightly unusual stop and go
 

[ QUOTE ]
The fact that OP has a lot of chips is irrelevant.

The SNG is still not good, because you don't SNG with middle pps.

[/ QUOTE ]
My main point is that in a pot this small the EV of a preflop push vs. a stop and go is small enough that it's not really worth sweating.

I also disagree with the idea of not stop-and-going with mid PPs as a general rule.