Greg\'s Digest
 

OK, so I will analyze the hands in this thread. I am going to do this for the first day, but in the future I would hope some mod will PM me 3 threads which seem to be generating discussion. For now, I am browsing the front page, and I will try to find interesting hands to me.


The first hand is from this thread with aislephive: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...0&fpart=all . I am picking this hand because I scrolled through some replied and they were all different. OK, now I'm going to look at it.

Preflop is fine/standard. Flop is standard. Turn is good. The river looks like a clear bet to me. The villain has just called, called, and called. There is no reason to think you are behind to something like a full house, and any spade is calling you. I think a nice hefty bet here, of about 66-72 is good. You can fold to a raise, but I'm not sure that you will ever be raised by the nut flush even. The chances of you having a full house is much greater, and your opponent knows this (maybe?)

Additionally, a way to improve this post, instead of just listing 33/8, is to say your reads. How has the opponent been playing, in terms of aggression, etc. How have you been playing? Is he smart enough to know this? Over how many hands? These things will help give others a better idea of the table dynamics, which is critical to making the correct decision.

OK, that will be a sample for me. I am going out drinking right now, let me know what you think, and what can be added.

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

just a simple Q....

why are you too good to make a post like this in the thread?

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

[ QUOTE ]
just a simple Q....

why are you too good to make a post like this in the thread?

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

[ QUOTE ]
just a simple Q....

why are you too good to make a post like this in the thread?

[/ QUOTE ]


he just is.



thanks for doing these greg

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

I thought this hand was the most interesting from today.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...e=7#Post9821405

thanks for doing this...I'm sure it'll be stickied!

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

I'm not a fan of this analysis at all.

[ QUOTE ]
but I'm not sure that you will ever be raised by the nut flush even.

[/ QUOTE ]

this isn't true like 90% of the time. this is BvB no?

I also think this is a good time for a "value check". I doubt villain is looking you up with ace/two pair/set here very often. I only see him calling with a random club, and that isn't very likely. Checking, however, gives the impression that you hated that 4 flush and gives the villain an opportunity to try to steal the pot. You also lose about the same amount if you were to b/f.

This obviously changes if the player is always a station.

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

I'd rather have ikestoys than greg give the analysis on these hands.

and regardless, just post in the thread, you're not good enough/special enough to think you can do something like this. find high school girls if you need your existence justified.

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

whats with all the uncalled for hate?

plz keep this up greg

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

[ QUOTE ]
whats with all the uncalled for hate?

plz keep this up greg

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

I think this could be a cool thread idea, and you have enough skins on the wall I guess, but I do think you should at least paste the hand into this thread if you're gonna do this.

Having to click a link, read a whole thread, then switch back over to this thread just to read what you think is kinda annoying.

I agree with your analysis and also think this is a clear bet.

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

ikestoys/CobraGoat: This is going to be a thread there I post my analysis to a bunch of hands, on a daily basis. This is the first post. I don't feel elitest if I am making a thread that discusses the most interesting hands from SSNL. If you do, well, I don't know what to tell you. Thanks for the hate though <3.

Paul: I'll answer that one next.

ikestoys: The player is 30/8. I asked for more infromation in the future, because his aggression would be discussed. However, the 8% pfr % implies that he is passive moreso than aggressive, and thusly would be more likely to call with a club here, rather than bluff. In fact, most villains here will take their showdownable hand (ie Ax) and check it every time here. However, throw an A8/A9 with the 8/9c, and they will be calling a bet every time. Betting here for value is necessary, because you can be bluffing, and your villain will almost always call with a club (or maybe without). A villain will not always bet with a club, and will always check behind bluffcatchers that they might have called with (an ace without a spade, 2-6 spade, 5, etc. Also, put yourself in villain's shoes. The SB raises preflop, and then bet bet bets when the board is paired and has a 4flush on the river. Are you really raising KsXx for value in BBs position? What worse hands are calling?

Delta: See the above. This is a series, not an isolated hand. If you don't like it, no one is forcing you to read it. If you want to learn thought processes from a winning HSNL player, feel free to contribute.

Claunchy: I'll try to do that in the future, it's just difficult because the hand is in a converted format, and I don't have the raw HH.

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

[ QUOTE ]
ikestoys/CobraGoat: This is going to be a thread there I post my analysis to a bunch of hands, on a daily basis. This is the first post. I don't feel elitest if I am making a thread that discusses the most interesting hands from SSNL. If you do, well, I don't know what to tell you. Thanks for the hate though <3.

Paul: I'll answer that one next.

ikestoys: The player is 30/8. I asked for more infromation in the future, because his aggression would be discussed. However, the 8% pfr % implies that he is passive moreso than aggressive, and thusly would be more likely to call with a club here, rather than bluff. In fact, most villains here will take their showdownable hand (ie Ax) and check it every time here. However, throw an A8/A9 with the 8/9c, and they will be calling a bet every time. Betting here for value is necessary, because you can be bluffing, and your villain will almost always call with a club (or maybe without). A villain will not always bet with a club, and will always check behind bluffcatchers that they might have called with (an ace without a spade, 2-6 spade, 5, etc. Also, put yourself in villain's shoes. The SB raises preflop, and then bet bet bets when the board is paired and has a 4flush on the river. Are you really raising KsXx for value in BBs position? What worse hands are calling?

Delta: See the above. This is a series, not an isolated hand. If you don't like it, no one is forcing you to read it. If you want to learn thought processes from a winning HSNL player, feel free to contribute.

Claunchy: I'll try to do that in the future, it's just difficult because the hand is in a converted format, and I don't have the raw HH.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with your analysis on the hand, checking is bad. But I froze up on the river and checked, he checked behind ATo no club, FWIW.

Also, you can just quote the OP in the thread for the converted HH.

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

[ QUOTE ]
whats with all the uncalled for hate?

plz keep this up greg

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't mean to hate on anybody, but if you are going to make a special thread highlighting your own opinion it better be done well. Greg simply gives a summary of an already mentioned line in the thread with no clear though process behind his reasoning. Nothing new was brought up in his post and he didn't mention any other possible lines.

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

thats from the OP obv ^^^

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

[ QUOTE ]
ikestoys/CobraGoat: This is going to be a thread there I post my analysis to a bunch of hands, on a daily basis. This is the first post. I don't feel elitest if I am making a thread that discusses the most interesting hands from SSNL. If you do, well, I don't know what to tell you. Thanks for the hate though <3.

Paul: I'll answer that one next.

ikestoys: The player is 30/8. I asked for more infromation in the future, because his aggression would be discussed. However, the 8% pfr % implies that he is passive moreso than aggressive, and thusly would be more likely to call with a club here, rather than bluff. In fact, most villains here will take their showdownable hand (ie Ax) and check it every time here. However, throw an A8/A9 with the 8/9c, and they will be calling a bet every time. Betting here for value is necessary, because you can be bluffing, and your villain will almost always call with a club (or maybe without). A villain will not always bet with a club, and will always check behind bluffcatchers that they might have called with (an ace without a spade, 2-6 spade, 5, etc. Also, put yourself in villain's shoes. The SB raises preflop, and then bet bet bets when the board is paired and has a 4flush on the river. Are you really raising KsXx for value in BBs position? What worse hands are calling?

Delta: See the above. This is a series, not an isolated hand. If you don't like it, no one is forcing you to read it. If you want to learn thought processes from a winning HSNL player, feel free to contribute.

Claunchy: I'll try to do that in the future, it's just difficult because the hand is in a converted format, and I don't have the raw HH.

[/ QUOTE ]

Greg...disregard the people bitching...n i luv ike's commentary on hands so it will be interesting to see when u guys disagree.

As for the original hands..simply quote the inital HH post and copy it then paste it in this thread.....u won't have to worry about the raw HH then.

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

ike,

I thought this was an easy decision. I saw a lot of posters that said check, including you. This is wrong. That is why I decided to start my hands with this hand. I stated my reasons why, and just because it was not the polar opposite of every other post in the thread doesn't mean it's not good. It should be reassuring that someone already mentioned the correct line, but a lot of people said the wrong thing. There are no other possible lines for this hand, otherwise I would have mentioned them.

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

post the damn orig HH

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

[ QUOTE ]
Villian is 33/8. I feel completely lost here.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="#C00000">Hero ($215.15)</font>
<font color="#C00000">BB ($199.50)</font>
UTG ($276.55)
MP ($200)
CO ($326.47)
Button ($304)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $8</font>, BB calls $6.

Flop: ($16) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $11</font>, BB calls $11.

Turn: ($38) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $28</font>, BB calls $28.

River: ($94) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero ???

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

[ QUOTE ]
just a simple Q....

why are you too good to make a post like this in the thread?

[/ QUOTE ]
What happened ike? I have some memories of you being a fine strategic poster, and now all you do is stir up [censored]. Why not just not post instead if it makes you so mad?

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

[ QUOTE ]
The player is 30/8. I asked for more infromation in the future, because his aggression would be discussed. However, the 8% pfr % implies that he is passive moreso than aggressive, and thusly would be more likely to call with a club here, rather than bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

So would you agree with this:
[ QUOTE ]
f he is the type to bluff this river, i check/call.
if he is a passive sloot, then i bet/fold


[/ QUOTE ]
also, using words like moreso and thusly are extremely unnecessary, I already believe that you are smart.

[ QUOTE ]

In fact, most villains here will take their showdownable hand (ie Ax) and check it every time here.


[/ QUOTE ]
I realize they check behind with showdownable hands here a lot, however, I don't think they call with most of them either. I think this is what you mean b/c of the next sentence, but I'm not sure.

[ QUOTE ]

However, throw an A8/A9 with the 8/9c, and they will be calling a bet every time.


[/ QUOTE ]
But wouldn't they also be betting if checked too?

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Betting here for value is necessary, because you can be bluffing,

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm never 3-barreling bluffing this board and even an absolute beginner wouldn't put a 3-barrel here as a bluff

[ QUOTE ]

and your villain will almost always call with a club

[/ QUOTE ]
or a bet

[ QUOTE ]
(or maybe without).

[/ QUOTE ]
the value i see in the check is I see a villain bluffing here with no club more than I see him calling w/o one

[ QUOTE ]
A villain will not always bet with a club,

[/ QUOTE ]
why would this villain then call with it? he has no reason to put you on a club

[ QUOTE ]

and will always check behind bluffcatchers that they might have called with (an ace without a spade, 2-6 spade, 5, etc. Also, put yourself in villain's shoes. The SB raises preflop, and then bet bet bets when the board is paired and has a 4flush on the river. Are you really raising KsXx for value in BBs position? What worse hands are calling?


[/ QUOTE ]

I might, it depends on the villain. The question for this hand isn't how I play, its how a 30/8 at 200NL plays, and this player is raising his flush b/c he is thinking ZOMG WE HAVE A FLUSH

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

[ QUOTE ]
ike,

I thought this was an easy decision. I saw a lot of posters that said check, including you. This is wrong. That is why I decided to start my hands with this hand. I stated my reasons why, and just because it was not the polar opposite of every other post in the thread doesn't mean it's not good. It should be reassuring that someone already mentioned the correct line, but a lot of people said the wrong thing. There are no other possible lines for this hand, otherwise I would have mentioned them.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is one of the most arrogant things i've read in a long time

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
just a simple Q....

why are you too good to make a post like this in the thread?

[/ QUOTE ]
What happened ike? I have some memories of you being a fine strategic poster, and now all you do is stir up [censored]. Why not just not post instead if it makes you so mad?


[/ QUOTE ]

i'm not mad, i'm mean, but i can take it too... and i still think your "theorem" is a joke, and deserves no mention with other insightful theorems such as the Yeti, Zeebo and Baluga

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
just a simple Q....

why are you too good to make a post like this in the thread?

[/ QUOTE ]
What happened ike? I have some memories of you being a fine strategic poster, and now all you do is stir up [censored]. Why not just not post instead if it makes you so mad?


[/ QUOTE ]

i'm not mad, i'm mean, but i can take it too... and i still think your "theorem" is a joke, and deserves no mention with other insightful theorems such as the Yeti, Zeebo and Baluga

[/ QUOTE ]
you admitted it was +EV right? I don't really care what you think of it, I just don't see why you gotta dump on everything around here. The last three threads I have read that weren't hand posts you have been in them moaning. It's pretty obvious you don't like that kind of thread, so try not going into them so that others don't have to put up with your negativity.

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

ikes,
please stfu and get out of this thread. IMO greg is totally right about the hand, but that isn't really the point. by all means tell us why you think he's wrong about the hands, but otherwise please quit [censored] up the thread.

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

when ikestoys jumps in a lake he doesnt get wet, the lake gets ikestoys

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

[ QUOTE ]
ikes,
please stfu and get out of this thread. IMO greg is totally right about the hand, but that isn't really the point. by all means tell us why you think he's wrong about the hands, but otherwise please quit [censored] up the thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

see above, 9 minutes before your post?

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

ike,
Did you request a read receipt with the PM you sent me?

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

[ QUOTE ]
ike,
Did you request a read receipt with the PM you sent me?

[/ QUOTE ]
You have no idea how much it is killing me to ignore you. I bet the third time will be the charm, so try to make the next one good.

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ike,
Did you request a read receipt with the PM you sent me?

[/ QUOTE ]
You have no idea how much it is killing me to ignore you. I bet the third time will be the charm, so try to make the next one good.

[/ QUOTE ]

fine, i was basically saying stop hijacking what has the potential for a good thread

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

The idea for this thread is great! It's fantastic to get to read solid analysis and reasoning that you can trust, instead of just getting confused by conflicting opinions usually posted in hh threads.

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

Ike,

A passive player likely isn't betting the river with a medium flush, and will rarely ever have a hand to bluff with given flop/turn call, unless he wants to turn Ax into a bluff which is way beyond his level of thinking.

Also, if I were to bluff the flop/turn, I think the river is an excellent scare card to 3 barrell.

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

i would definitely bet here, something medium or small

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

Ike get the [censored] out, totally unneeded trolling.

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

Ike,

I'm drunk, but you are so wrong. You ignore the specifics about the oppoonent. I will explain more tomorrow. Basically, you assume things, like a passive 30/8 (by definition is passive, as OP would've said something about postflop aggression since it would be counterintuitive to the preflop play and thusly noticeable) is going to be betting maginal hands on the river, which is a ridiculous assumption.

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

[ QUOTE ]
when ikestoys jumps in a lake he doesnt get wet, the lake gets ikestoys

[/ QUOTE ]

The cheesy chuck norris picture just adds to his arrogant aura.

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

greg: hu o8 4 rollz?

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

greg, im really glad ur doing this... afew days ago everyone was complaining that there's not enough good strat posters anymore in SSNL, then u come down here to give us some of ur thoughts and ppl start hating on u which makes no sense.. keep it up

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

;laskjdf;lsakdjf asdfl;kj;ldfsjk asdfkj;klwer asd;luopiwenmb

In the future Greg, post the hand in the OP.

In the future some of the rest of you, less douchiness please.

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

[ QUOTE ]
;laskjdf;lsakdjf asdfl;kj;ldfsjk asdfkj;klwer asd;luopiwenmb

In the future Greg, post the hand in the OP.

In the future some of the rest of you, less douchiness please.

[/ QUOTE ]
totally agree, hes hsnl, reg rules dont apply

Re: Greg\'s Digest
 

[ QUOTE ]

Claunchy: I'll try to do that in the future, it's just difficult because the hand is in a converted format, and I don't have the raw HH.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just hit quote of the hand you want to talk about. Copy and paste it into a new thread. Waaalaaaa.