knock out the jackass?? calling with a known coin-flip
 

Live MTT. 3 tables left, paying one table. Guy on my left is a complete idiot. Drunk, loud, rude. hitting on the cocktail waitresses and thinks he's going to get some by showing them naked girlie pics on his ipod. total loser.

Blinds are 150-300, I have about 5500 in SB, idiot has 4200 in BB. Folded around and he throws all his chips in out of turn and flips over 88. Floor is called, his bet will stand and action is on me. I have A9o. Clearly there will be a lot of secondary gain if I knock this loser out as he has been an annoyance for the past couple hours.

Who calls here?

Re: knock out the jackass?? calling with a known coin-flip
 

Its a tough one. I'm thinking fold only because hopefully you can catch him on another hand where you have him dominated and he is too drunk to realize or to even pay attention. The only problem with folding is that there is a good chance someone else might get all his chips. Also, if you think your going to play better by having this guy long gone from your side, then maybe go for it...what did you do?

Re: knock out the jackass?? calling with a known coin-flip
 

fold, find a better spot than being a 42-57 dog.

Re: knock out the jackass?? calling with a known coin-flip
 

I might call with A9s but definitely dump A9o. Suited its a little closer to 50/50, still though you can find a better spot to get it in and take him out.

Re: knock out the jackass?? calling with a known coin-flip
 

As much as I get annoyed by having a player like that at the table I strive to not let it affect my decisions. Unless I'm short stacked I fold this and wait for a better spot. Would be better if he was on your right though.

Re: knock out the jackass?? calling with a known coin-flip
 

Is there an ante? Since this is basically a math question, if there is I call.
You could consider the "experience EV" of not having him around, but that shouldn't affect your decision. You may also consider the "there are probably aces in the deck since it folded to the blinds" reasoning, which would increase your chances slightly.

But here's the important part: Since this is an obviously close decision, what really matters is the state of your chip stack relative to the table. If winning the pot gave me the chip lead at the table, I'd be more inclined to call. If I thought people would call me really light when I open-shoved the 1300 chips I'd have left if I lost, I'd be more inclined to fold.

Re: knock out the jackass?? calling with a known coin-flip
 

I would fold. Chances are because he is drunk you will have a better position to take his chips. I don't like a coinflip here against him. Just wait until a better oppurtunity arises

Re: knock out the jackass?? calling with a known coin-flip
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would fold. Chances are because he is drunk you will have a better position to take his chips.

[/ QUOTE ]
Chances are better that one of the other people at the table will get them first.

Re: knock out the jackass?? calling with a known coin-flip
 

You need to put in 4050 to win 4650 so you're basically breaking even on the call.

I'd fold.

Re: knock out the jackass?? calling with a known coin-flip
 

Why bother racing against a retard, when you know you are behind?

You can get better than 50 50 down the track.

If the hands were reversed, it is a more interesting topic, because we are +ev to call, but need to reassess that +ev with what may happen down the track.

Re: knock out the jackass?? calling with a known coin-flip
 

Next time call me, i'll knock him out [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: knock out the jackass?? calling with a known coin-flip
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why bother racing against a retard, when you know you are behind?

You can get better than 50 50 down the track.

If the hands were reversed, it is a more interesting topic, because we are +ev to call, but need to reassess that +ev with what may happen down the track.

[/ QUOTE ]
If the hands were reversed, it would of a no brainer. An obvious call.

Since the hands are like they are, I might even call anyway. It is 50/50.

Re: knock out the jackass?? calling with a known coin-flip
 

[ QUOTE ]
If the hands were reversed, it is a more interesting topic, because we are +ev to call, but need to reassess that +ev with what may happen down the track.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not close if the hands are reversed. You would be passing on almost 1000 chips by folding. it would have to be a pretty amazing structure and you'd have to be mother[censored] awesome at poker to do better than that by holding on to your 4050.

Re: knock out the jackass?? calling with a known coin-flip
 

easy fold.... if you are better than the table, he'll just bother them more than you. and that's always fun. having an annoying player lets you fly under the radar a little too. anyway you would only call if you are worried about 3-4 pother players at the table... think of course being that he'll lose the chips to them, and with a stack those guys are gonna crush you. the better you are the more likely you fold here.

Re: knock out the jackass?? calling with a known coin-flip
 

Everyone who just thinks "oh easy fold wait for a better spot" needs to reread my posts.

Re: knock out the jackass?? calling with a known coin-flip
 

Go for it. Normally this is a fold for me but considering the fact hes drunk and someone is gonna get all his chips you might as well take a coinflip. If you fold you're 7or8 to 1 get them. Here you're even money.

Call

Re: knock out the jackass?? calling with a known coin-flip
 

no antes

the annoyance factor of this guy was extremely high for me, less so for everyone else-- he was in the 10 seat and I was in the 9.

If I call and win I would be chip leader, although that doesn't mean all that much at this stage of this fast tourney. If I call and lose I'm in pretty lousy shape, plus would have to deal with the extra crap this guy would be dishing out. He didn't want a call, obviously.

I didn't mention it, but the guy was crippled- had trouble walking and was using a wheelchair. He had to have security wheel him to the restroom a couple times.

Re: knock out the jackass?? calling with a known coin-flip
 

donkey punch the cripple... hehe

and ouch big star branded me for life with that comment.

Re: knock out the jackass?? calling with a known coin-flip
 

I'm pretty partial to the "folded to the blinds = aces left in the deck" reasoning, especially if you know you're playing with dudes who love any A. Still, with no antes, this is probably too much for me to risk on a flip in relation to the blinds.

Re: knock out the jackass?? calling with a known coin-flip
 

In a live tournament, having the table chip lead is important because people tend to be be more afraid to put their "tournament life" at risk. In addition, the fast structure favors a call for two reasons: one, you'll want the chips to gamble with other people for their stacks, and two, you won't have the time to wait for better opportunities. Put it this way, is it going to be more than 50% likely that you'll pick up a near double up some other way? I doubt it.

Re: knock out the jackass?? calling with a known coin-flip
 

[ QUOTE ]
In a live tournament, having the table chip lead is important because people tend to be be more afraid to put their "tournament life" at risk. In addition, the fast structure favors a call for two reasons: one, you'll want the chips to gamble with other people for their stacks, and two, you won't have the time to wait for better opportunities. Put it this way, is it going to be more than 50% likely that you'll pick up a near double up some other way? I doubt it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to agree with this. Calling has a drastic increase on the likelihood that you won't be around the drunk much longer.

Re: knock out the jackass?? calling with a known coin-flip
 

Fold and you'll find a better spot. He'll keep doing this. You might even hit a 2-for-1 where you'll be calling with even better pot odds. Not to mention that someone else is likely to take a shot at him eventually and drunk doubles up. Seen this happen way too many times. Hehe.

Re: knock out the jackass?? calling with a known coin-flip
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In a live tournament, having the table chip lead is important because people tend to be be more afraid to put their "tournament life" at risk. In addition, the fast structure favors a call for two reasons: one, you'll want the chips to gamble with other people for their stacks, and two, you won't have the time to wait for better opportunities. Put it this way, is it going to be more than 50% likely that you'll pick up a near double up some other way? I doubt it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to agree with this. Calling has a drastic increase on the likelihood that you won't be around the drunk much longer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh, one way or the other, I guess that's at least true.

--TFGoose