Live 20-40 Hand against tricky opponent
 

Live Foxwoods 20-40 great game. Five people limp I complete in SB with 109 diamonds. Seven of us to the flop.

Flop: 972 with two clubs.

I check, seemingly solid unkown bets, very tricky regular calls, i just call. Three of us to the turn.

Turn: 9 of clubs so board is 9729 with 3 clubs. I check, MP bets, tricky player calls. I gave one of the players at least a flush here and felt the tricky player flopped a set, but was confused by his turn call so I just call.

river 2 so board is 97292 two clubs. I bet out.

I am mostly interested in my flop and turn play in this spot. I checked the flop hoping to checkraise a late position better, but didn't raise due to who bet and called in this spot.

Comments on all streets appreciated.

Re: Live 20-40 Hand against tricky opponent
 

Good on all streets IMO.

Re: Live 20-40 Hand against tricky opponent
 

perfect on all streets. tricky player's line is a flush a lot.

Re: Live 20-40 Hand against tricky opponent
 

Turn and River look good. I'd be inclined to checkraise the flop though. What was the flop bettors position? I think in this spot, you'll often see a flush draw from the bettor, and JTo type hand from the caller. I think you're ahead pretty often on the flop, and check-calling might put you in some uncomfortable turn spots when something like the Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] pops off. If there are a couple of players yet to act when the action gets back to you on the flop, you pretty much have to checkraise. The pot's already pretty big, and you don't want QJ or the like seeing the turn.

Re: Live 20-40 Hand against tricky opponent
 

I think this is fine. I would tend to c/r the flop though.

who were the opponents out of curiosity and when was this hand? it sort of rings a bell.

Re: Live 20-40 Hand against tricky opponent
 

You need to find a C/R on one of the first two streets. I think you are being too scared of the tricky player here. I don't think a tricky player is going to slow play here. The board is paired and a flush has completed here and the original bettor has shown no interest in slowing down with the apparent scare cards here. Clearly, this is not a spot to get tricky to create value, by calling and supposed sucking you in. This is a spot where you want to make the value on the turn here from the bettor who apparently has a very big hand and has not slowed down with the scare cards.

As a result here I love a C/R on the turn here, but I really think you need to C/R the flop here. The hand becomes much easier to play to when you take control of the hand.

Re: Live 20-40 Hand against tricky opponent
 

c/r flop to make the others call 2 cold with overs, but since late pos didnt bet id call and see what develops, this is right out of Inside the Poker Mind. I told u this before when it happened, Kev and Jeff didnt agree, its weird their combined bankroll is 10k.

Re: Live 20-40 Hand against tricky opponent
 

I like preflop and flop obviously. On the turn I think you need to do something. I don't know where you automatically assumed one of them has a set and the other has a flush.

I think you need to refine your read if this player is truly tricky. As I see it, a tricky player raises both the flop and the turn with flush/set. This looks more like a loose/passive player to me.

Re: Live 20-40 Hand against tricky opponent
 

unless by very tricky, u mean retarded, tricky player should be raising any monster on the turn. He can expect decent action by the bulk of MPs range given the flop + turn bets into large fields. I'm really surprised few people want to c/r the turn. I think not doing so should be at least a misdemeanor.

edit: by the way, i really like flop.

Re: Live 20-40 Hand against tricky opponent
 

preflop: i agree call.

postflop: vs this many players on this flop i check and hope for a bet from late position to check raise and face the field with 2 bets. leading i don't like, in fact sometimes you need to check fold depending on the action that comes back to you. here i like your play.

turn: i lead. you can't give a redraw without charging to a high club. sure someone could have a flush, but often your trips are best, and you have redraws (although a bad price to get there). i lead here.

river: i agree.

Re: Live 20-40 Hand against tricky opponent
 

c/r the turn and bet basically any river that isnt a 4th flush card (obv)

this is a good move b/c a lot of draws will bet the turn against you, hoping to take it down here, and theyre prob not folding the turn for a bet.. so it gets you the max

Re: Live 20-40 Hand against tricky opponent
 

question on the suggested flop c/r. Is there ever a top pair (and kicker) holding that we're not check raising ? I'm thinking mostly about combinations that are particularly vulnerable to the coming turn cards. Like if this hand was more like:

237, and we held 78s, is the cr still as obvious ? Where do most people feel the cutoff is when c/r a smallish top pair ?

Re: Live 20-40 Hand against tricky opponent
 

Flop's fine. I could see arguments for betting out, c/ring any bet or only c/ring a LP bet depending on the texture of the game.

As others stated though, the turn absolutely has to be a check/raise. You're ahead over 50% of the time three ways, and there are a lot of hands you won't get action from on the river. Putting your opponents on a set and a flush here is just seeing monsters under the bed.

Re: Live 20-40 Hand against tricky opponent
 

If you put a guy on a set, why would you want to check raise him drawing dead?

BTW, how's the beer drinking going hamm?

Re: Live 20-40 Hand against tricky opponent
 

Everyone raises their flush draws at foxwoods 20/40 no matter what, even if it doesn't make sense to. I think its in the bylaws. Therefore, it comes down to whether you think the initial bettor is betting a flush draw or not. I think you're ahead a good enough amount of the time to warrant consideration for a checkraise on the turn, but it's close and you'd open yourself up to a 3 bet drawing very thin so I see no problems with how you played it.

Re: Live 20-40 Hand against tricky opponent
 

So you're first to act, solid player is second, and tricky player is third to act out of seven?

If so, I'd bet the flop. Let solid or tricky guy raise with second pair to thin the field.

Then again, I don't check-raise nearly enough. Out of six other guys, I just can't assume that the first 4 or 5 are going to check, so guy in CO or B can bet, allowing me to check-raise.

Re: Live 20-40 Hand against tricky opponent
 

If so, I'd bet the flop. Let solid or tricky guy raise with second pair to thin the field.


[/ QUOTE ]
I agree here.
You might have the best hand on the flop, but with two people in the pot, I don't like all the straight and flush draws staring at me.

I would bet here hoping that someone on a draw would raise, if the 3rd person called 2 bets cold, a re-raise could knock out a higher kicker, gutshot, baby flush draw...
I don't like checking top pair when there is no raise pre-flop, especially with so many possible draws on the board, and I like sending messages out there that your draws will be expensive.

Re: Live 20-40 Hand against tricky opponent
 

[ QUOTE ]
c/r flop to make the others call 2 cold with overs, but since late pos didnt bet id call and see what develops, this is right out of Inside the Poker Mind. I told u this before when it happened, Kev and Jeff didnt agree, its weird their combined bankroll is 10k.

[/ QUOTE ]

- I checked the flop hoping for the late position better so I could raise scenario which I didn't get.

end result, MP called river with his flush and cowboy hat mike folded his flopped set which turned into a useless full house.

Re: Live 20-40 Hand against tricky opponent
 

Hand was a couple of weeks back, MP was an unkown but straightforward player and "tricky player" at least in hands vs me was Cowbody hat Mike

Re: Live 20-40 Hand against tricky opponent
 

Million Dollar Mike?

He usually has a stack of $100's tucked behind his chips? He's predictably tricky.

Re: Live 20-40 Hand against tricky opponent
 

Yeah i agree barry predictably tricky. You may have even been at the table in the game.