Standard set fold in stars 109
 

Very early level, no reads.

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t10/t20
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t1140
UTG+1: t1860
MP1: t1160
MP2: t1590
Hero: t1420
CO: t1580
Button: t1700
SB: t1700
BB: t1350

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP3 with 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls t20 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t30)</font>, 2 folds, Hero calls t20 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t50)</font>, CO folds, Button calls t20 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t70)</font>, SB calls t10 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t90)</font>, BB checks.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (t100, 5 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets t20</font>, BB calls t20 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t120)</font>, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to t100</font>, 2 folds, BB calls t80 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t240)</font>.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (t320, 2 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets t220</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to t500</font>, Hero calls t280 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t1040)</font>.

River: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (t1320, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB is all-in t730</font>, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: t730 returned to BB.

Results:
Final pot: t1320

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

It sure looks like a flush to me.

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

he called twice on the flop and c/r turn super small. i don't always bet turn but once u do i play it the same.

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

Bond raise more on the flop. Getting 2:1 on this river I don't like a fold the play in these are soooo awful I wouldn't be suprised at all if he had A4, 56, j6 63 53 etc,

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

nf

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

if ur going to call the turn. call river. calling off 280 here is too many chips this early. Ac doesn't change anything either.

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

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if ur going to call the turn. call river. calling off 280 here is too many chips this early. Ac doesn't change anything either.

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You found out what you were looking for when your turn bet was raised ... fold it then, if you are going to fold

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

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if ur going to call the turn. call river. calling off 280 here is too many chips this early. Ac doesn't change anything either.

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Dude, he's calling the turn to see if he fills up or makes 4 of kind obviously with a plan to fold to a river bet U/I.

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

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if ur going to call the turn. call river. calling off 280 here is too many chips this early. Ac doesn't change anything either.

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You found out what you were looking for when your turn bet was raised ... fold it then, if you are going to fold

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Wrong. See my response.

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

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if ur going to call the turn. call river. calling off 280 here is too many chips this early. Ac doesn't change anything either.


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Dude, no. We are getting the right price for boating up. If the board pairs we extremely likely get BB's stack.

On the river I think villain has a flush like 95% of the time.

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

ok ... that makes sense ... so the turn bet gives villian incorrect odds to call if he needs a diamond for the flush but Bond has correct odds to call the reraise in an attempt to hit his quads or full house

I get it ...

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

Yea as played we certainly can't fold on turn getting implied odds that include the pot+his entire stack basically always.

Should i be checking this turn?????

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

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Yea as played we certainly can't fold on turn getting implied odds that include the pot+his entire stack basically always.

Should i be checking this turn?????

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I check the turn a lot when a scare card hits. Not sure if this is good or bad. :/

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

For this specific line I do like a check on the turn.

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

Doesn't the turn bet confirm that it is indeed a flush ... otherwise there isn't enough information to fold my set

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

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Doesn't the turn bet confirm that it is indeed a flush ... otherwise there isn't enough information to fold my set

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But if you check behind on the turn you do several things. Here are a few in no particular order:
1) Keep the pot smaller when you might be behind.
2) Given villain an opportunity to bluff river.
3) Take a free card to your full house if you are behind.

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

Yeah when I think about it, in position a check behind on the turn, intending to call a river bet, or push when the board pairs. That is optimal.

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

however ...

1) no bet doesn't give villian a chance to make a mistake on a flush draw
2) we have a better idea that the villian isn't bluffing taking Bonds line ... we think it is a bluff if we check the turn
3) if the board pairs up then it is unlikely we see any more of villians stack and the turn bet gets us some extra chips

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

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Yeah when I think about it, in position a check behind on the turn, intending to call a river bet, or push when the board pairs. That is optimal.

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I feel like you're missing out on a ton of value versus weak players when you play sets in position this way just because a flush card turned.

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

I put villains on flush draws/flushes WAY too often FWIW.

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

others do the same ... which is another reason a bet is good in this spot.

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

I think checking behind the turn is some results oriented thinking; there's a lot of value to be had with a turn bet.

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

I check the turn here a lot, but once you do that, you pretty much have to call all blank rivers.

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

If villian is so smart why is he pricing us in for our full house draw with his made flush?

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

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If villian is so smart why is he pricing us in for our full house draw with his made flush?

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Cause board is totally safe for his flush assuming i don't have a set.

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

I'd three-bet shove the turn. Why is nobody else doing that?

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

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Ac doesn't change anything either.

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It makes it somewhat more likely he has naked A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] IMO.

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

Kramer, it's not that a flush card turned, it's that a flush card turned in combination with villain's specific line. I agree that checking behind on the turn with a set head's up is generally not something you should be doing, but this is an exception.

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

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I'd three-bet shove the turn. Why is nobody else doing that?

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Shoving into an opponent who has represented a hand that has us beat?

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

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I'd three-bet shove the turn. Why is nobody else doing that?

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What exactly is this supposed to accomplish?

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

Hmmn. The fact he didn't raise the SB donk bet makes me less sure now, because it takes two-pair and str8 draw+ pair type hands somewhat out of his range. However, in general, this is such an easy scare card to bluff, there's lots of made hands and draws which will call and a [censored] of rivers we hate.

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

Guys turn is definitely a check back, the only hand we lose substantial value against is the OESD. Compared to being able to value bet safe rivers against hands that would fold the turn, get away if he bets the river hard, and stack him if the board pairs, it doesn't seem that close to me.

Reg, his range on the turn is 99% flushes. Shoving is suicidal.

Edit: And raise harder on the flop, you know someone is drawing.

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

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Reg, his range on the turn is 99% flushes. Shoving is suicidal.

Edit: And raise harder on the flop, you know someone is drawing.

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Yeah, I see that now. Wasn't paying attention to intial flop action (call of SB donk) so was putting two pair and stronger made+draw hands in his range.

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

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Guys turn is definitely a check back, the only hand we lose substantial value against is the OESD. Compared to being able to value bet safe rivers against hands that would fold the turn, get away if he bets the river hard, and stack him if the board pairs, it doesn't seem that close to me.

Reg, his range on the turn is 99% flushes. Shoving is suicidal.

Edit: And raise harder on the flop, you know someone is drawing.

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Wow I disagree a lot with this post. People suck at poker, they will call this turn bet with the bare Ad a bare 4. Top pair all these stupid. As played this turn isn't 99% flushes, whenever I convince myself that villian always has a flush they turn over some stupid hand which reminds me how easy this game is. As played river is really close as you only need to be good like 30% of the time here. I probably raise more on the flop.

Re: Standard set fold in stars 109
 

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I'd three-bet shove the turn. Why is nobody else doing that?

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What exactly is this supposed to accomplish?

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You get his stack when he instacalls with j4.