SNG Book Announcement:
 

Hi Everyone:

While the contract isn't completely final yet, I'm going to announce a new book project, and we're working on the manuscript right now. The book is Strategies for Online Sit ’n Go’s; Expert Advice for Beating One-Table Poker Tournaments with Three Places Paid by Collin Moshman.

This is a manuscript that we received unsolicted and it is quite good. The title is tentative and may be changed before publication. Also, the author is traveling right now, but expects to start posting, primarily on the One-Table Tournaments Forum, in a few days.

Best wishes,
Mason

Re: Book Announcement
 

at last! a book for SNG's

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I hope he has a thick skin.

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Sit n Go's thats seems like a great idea. IS he going to have a co author or get any advice from another 2+2 author?

Just hope to many of my oppenets dont read the book.

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[ QUOTE ]
Sin ’n Go’s

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cool.

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sin ’n Go’s

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cool.

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Lol, noticed that too.
Froidian slip...

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long title but i will buy it

Re: Book Announcement
 

Hi renereal:

As in all our books, David and I will review the manuscript. But I've read most of it and my comments (so far) only have to doing with editing and even here it's well written.

Best wishes,
mason

Re: Book Announcement
 

I'm not sure how well this book will sell.

Online SNGs have been on the decline for several reasons. Most notably is that the structure of paying 3 spots presents an obvious necessary strategy: tight early and loose-aggressive late. As the online games are getting tougher, a lot of SNG players have switched to cash games.

Re: Book Announcement
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure how well this book will sell.

Online SNGs have been on the decline for several reasons. Most notably is that the structure of paying 3 spots presents an obvious necessary strategy: tight early and loose-aggressive late. As the online games are getting tougher, a lot of SNG players have switched to cash games.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have the opposite viewpoint as you on this one. Even though online SnGs may be suffering, a lot of people including my friends play tournements with similar styles to SnGs. I feel there will be a market for people who are not professionals but still play in a lot of home tourneys

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this looks pretty good , im gonna buy it
when is it going out , mason?

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Should be expanded to two-tables also. Or, it shouldn't, because I don't want people getting better at them.

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[ QUOTE ]
This is a manuscript that we received unsolicted and it is quite good.

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Lol. A born salesman! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I'll buy it anyway, of course.

Re: Book Announcement
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure how well this book will sell.

Online SNGs have been on the decline for several reasons. Most notably is that the structure of paying 3 spots presents an obvious necessary strategy: tight early and loose-aggressive late. As the online games are getting tougher, a lot of SNG players have switched to cash games.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have the opposite viewpoint as you on this one. Even though online SnGs may be suffering, a lot of people including my friends play tournements with similar styles to SnGs. I feel there will be a market for people who are not professionals but still play in a lot of home tourneys

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly-most home game tourneys are essentially SNGs, based on the number of players, paying more than 1 spot, and a quick blind structure.

Maybe Mason/someone can come up with a title that works the home game aspect in without being too clumsy? I might also shy away from the word "Online" in the title in a post-UIGEA world.

I'm guessing this has to be a pretty good book because I have the feeling that Mason/David are probably pretty brutal in judging unsolicited manuscripts.

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I'm guessing that Mason/David can't accurately judge the quality of a book on SNGs.

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Post deleted by deacsoft

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A book that explores playing these thing really WELL in a world full of fairly straight-forward 'tight early, push-bot late' type grinders would be something I would be interested in.

Yes, you can play a fairly straight-forward style and be successful at these things, especially at the low buy-in's.
I'm not much of an SNG player and don't really frequent the forum here, but I suspect there's more than one way to approach these things and it's worth exploring.

Also, if Mason is this impressed with it then that's good enough to me as far as being, at least, somewhat interested.

Mason isn't an SNG player though to my knowledge and is perhaps about as unfamiliar with the theory in the SNG forum as I am.
But he can, at least, recognize when the theories aren't completely horrible.
He seems genuinely impressed with this work so I'm looking forward to it.

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I'm surprised that we seem to need an extra book for SnGs. Are there any gaps in Harrington's work? If it's just general advice, I'm not sure it's worth it, but if there are strategies shown how to beat the straightforward style it could be very interesting. Anyways, if it shows how to beat $ 5 Donkaments there's no thrill of anticipation.

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look forward to it mason...thanks

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[ QUOTE ]
I'm surprised that we seem to need an extra book for SnGs. Are there any gaps in Harrington's work? If it's just general advice, I'm not sure it's worth it, but if there are strategies shown how to beat the straightforward style it could be very interesting. Anyways, if it shows how to beat $ 5 Donkaments there's no thrill of anticipation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Harrington doesn't really say much about sng's. There is a lot of stuff about sng's that does not appear to be widely known in the poker world. The skills required to succeed at sng's are completely different from most other forms of poker. If this book does a good job at explaining these skills, I imagine that quite a few STTF regulars might have to get a real job.

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Harrington doesn't really say much about sng's

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I think he covers the fundamentals very well.
But you're right, if it's going deep enough, this could be a great book.

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Harrington pretty much just covers single-table satellies, right?
This writer is specifically addressing SNG's with a 50/30/20 pay-out structure.

And perhaps this will lead to an exploration on how aggressively one should play in certain spots.
how much should you crawl into the money? times when you should be pushing because everyone else is trying to crawl into the money, etc.

Some seem to think that early-tight play is the only way. certainly this can be profitable.
But I believe there are others who believe that more aggressiveness in the early rounds can be +EV because REALLY gunning for 1st is the way to go.

Re: Book Announcement *DELETED*
 

Mason,

I strongly urge you to consult at least 3 professional online sng players (from the STT forum here; the mods should be able to direct you to those who have the best theoretical understanding) before publishing this. I understand that you and David feel that you have enough poker understanding to fully address all strategic issues, but there is no possible way that you can totally understand the landscape and typical play of online sngs without logging at least 3000 sngs at various sites and buyins.

Everything I've ever read outside of the STT forum regarding sit n gos is terribly off-base. I really don't want to see that happen here.

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Yeah, David's own comments in his forum show that he doesn't know how far SNG theory has come in the STT forum.

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hard to disagree.

Don't think Mason is an SNG player nor participates in the SNG forum here.

If they do put this book out and it's really simplistic or silly I would definitely be disappointed.
I would think that Mason can recognize when that's the case. But it certainly couldn't hurt to get the opinions of a couple well-respected 2+2 SNG'ers.

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Everything I've ever read outside of the STT forum regarding sit n gos is terribly off-base. I really don't want to see that happen here.

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I agree. I've seen some stuff from some top minds in the game (including some of the Full Tilt guys) that show a lack of understanding of and familiarity with SnGs.

Online SnG play has changed significantly since Party and others pulled out of the US market. And despite those changes, ICM (independent chip model) is still critical to an understanding of correct strategy.

I would expect any good book on SnGs to spend significant time addressing both online recent changes and ICM.

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what exactly is ICM?

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"what exactly is ICM?"
Independent Chip Modeling

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Does that have to do with math and numbers?

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Does that have to do with math and numbers?

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There is a full explaination in the 1-table tornament forum.
It's in one of the sticky threads.

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If the book doesn't even mention ICM or has little on it, I wont even buy it. This has to be an "advanced" SnG book because there are plenty of websites/ software out there that have more than the basics covered.

I will be very disappoined if this is a beginner/basic type of book.

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In a book length book (i.e. a book) on sngs, it would be impossible not to mention ICM, or the gigabet dilemma for that matter. I just worry that the single table game is quite close to being solvable and can be killed off like 5 card stud/draw. I worry that because I'm absolutely rubbish at every other kind of poker.

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single table SnG's only really become solvable when there are a few players left and chip stacks are small relative to the blinds, so I think there will always be plenty of scope for the good SnG players to outplay the not so good during a SnG. anyway shall see what happens.

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Does that have to do with math and numbers?

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Sorry to have to be the one to break this to you, but life has to do with math and numbers. And poker even more so. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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I think this book may be three years too late.

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i dont think it is to late there are still very many SNG games going on. I see alot of money to be made there. I would just hope the author goes into detail on how to play the turbo SNG's because from what i see they account for half of all the SNG games available.

Re: Book Announcement
 

Mason,

Is This the same Collin Moshman who wrote this book?

Re: Book Announcement
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure how well this book will sell.

Online SNGs have been on the decline for several reasons. Most notably is that the structure of paying 3 spots presents an obvious necessary strategy: tight early and loose-aggressive late. As the online games are getting tougher, a lot of SNG players have switched to cash games.

[/ QUOTE ]

But all the micro-limit ballas love this stuff. My wife couldn't get enough of the $1 SnGs last semester.

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what exactly is ICM?

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There is an interesting article in this months 2+2 magazine about ICM for those interested.
Here

Re: Book Announcement
 

Hi Red:

I believe so.

Best wishes,
Mason