Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

Played the 20/40 limit holdem game at Borgata. They had something called a "time pot" where people agree that the time charge comes from the first two decent pots after the dealer change. I found this real annoying as it lead to tight play for several hands. Isn't it much easier to just pay the time charge?

Also, it got passed to me in the SB and the BB asked if I wanted to chop. I had a hand and said raise. BB kept going on and on about this. Other people at the table were saying what a jerk I was. I thought you had to agree ahead of time if you wanted to chop.

I found the customs at this game a little strange and everybody thought I was a noobie because I didn't understand them.

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

You don't have to agree ahead of time whether or not to chop, but chopping should never be based on your cards. Proper etiquette is that you either always chop or never chop, period.

Granted, some people find it rude/annoying when someone never chops, but they shouldn't, so long as they are consistent. However, some people choose to always chop, against their better and slightly more profitable judgement, just to keep the game more pleasant and lacking in unncessary tension that could adversely affect their EV in the long run of that session.

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying/CHOPPING SUCKS!
 

The time pot is a necessary evil for this game. The rent is $7/ half hr for this game. The dealer can take one or two minutes to get the time payments right. So to get in the extra hands it's worth it. I sat through fourteen hours of poker over the last two Saturdays in that game, and didn't get lucky on any of the first two hands of each round.I look at it as if I made $14hr for 14 hours.That is $196 bucks in my pocket, in the greatest game in town.

Chopping: I tell people, if I have a 7-deuce, I'll chop. If I have an ace, I ain't chopping, so proceed at your own peril. The way many of us from 2+2 play, they think I am douche bag anyway; so not chopping when I have an advantage is just another rationalization/validation of their own inadequacy for them of why they lose.

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying/CHOPPING SUCKS!
 

OP: if you don't care for either time pots or chopping, don't do it. No one in that game will mind if you don't chop, or if you don't participate in the time pot. It's also pretty rare for the Borg 20 game to "tighten up" during a time pot.

[ QUOTE ]
Chopping: I tell people, if I have a 7-deuce, I'll chop. If I have an ace, I ain't chopping, so proceed at your own peril. The way many of us from 2+2 play, they think I a douche bag anyway; so not chopping when I have an advantage is just another rationalization/validation of why they lose.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is the definition of douche-baggery, and it's also very discourteous.

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

[ QUOTE ]
but chopping should never be based on your cards. Proper etiquette is that you either always chop or never chop, period.

Granted, some people find it rude/annoying when someone never chops, but they shouldn't, so long as they are consistent.

[/ QUOTE ] I would agree. One exception, AA, WHEN the room is running Aces Cracked or has a Bad Beat Jackpot. I simply say, "I can't" or "Check it down." when the option comes to me.

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying/CHOPPING SUCKS!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Chopping: I tell people, if I have a 7-deuce, I'll chop. If I have an ace, I ain't chopping, so proceed at your own peril. The way many of us from 2+2 play, they think I a douche bag anyway; so not chopping when I have an advantage is just another rationalization/validation of why they lose.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is the definition of douche-baggery, and it's also very discourteous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Douche-baggery is me!

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying/CHOPPING SUCKS!
 

I don't generally play limit holdem, so I didn't know it was standard to say chop and then chop regardless of your cards. I had played before low limit where it was not an issue, and in games where people would agree ahead of time to chop. Everyone thought I was a jerk, but I didn't know the convention.

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

Here's a thread containing a long discussion about time pots in the 20-40 game, including my views that they are bad for the game.

You are wrong about chopping. Either you always chop or you never chop. There doesn't have to be a preexisting agreement. That said, I've never seen people bitch if a player doesn't want to chop.

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

[ QUOTE ]
Played the 20/40 limit holdem game at Borgata. They had something called a "time pot" where people agree that the time charge comes from the first two decent pots after the dealer change. I found this real annoying as it lead to tight play for several hands. Isn't it much easier to just pay the time charge?

Also, it got passed to me in the SB and the BB asked if I wanted to chop. I had a hand and said raise. BB kept going on and on about this. Other people at the table were saying what a jerk I was. I thought you had to agree ahead of time if you wanted to chop.

I found the customs at this game a little strange and everybody thought I was a noobie because I didn't understand them.

[/ QUOTE ]
Im guessing this post was a joke?

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Played the 20/40 limit holdem game at Borgata. They had something called a "time pot" where people agree that the time charge comes from the first two decent pots after the dealer change. I found this real annoying as it lead to tight play for several hands. Isn't it much easier to just pay the time charge?

Also, it got passed to me in the SB and the BB asked if I wanted to chop. I had a hand and said raise. BB kept going on and on about this. Other people at the table were saying what a jerk I was. I thought you had to agree ahead of time if you wanted to chop.

I found the customs at this game a little strange and everybody thought I was a noobie because I didn't understand them.

[/ QUOTE ]
Im guessing this post was a joke?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, I don't usually play live limit holdem, so I wasn't aware of all this chopping etiquette and time pots.

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

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No, I don't usually play live limit holdem, so I wasn't aware of all this chopping etiquette and time pots.

[/ QUOTE ]
oh, so youre saying youre a noob?

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

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[ QUOTE ]
but chopping should never be based on your cards. Proper etiquette is that you either always chop or never chop, period.

Granted, some people find it rude/annoying when someone never chops, but they shouldn't, so long as they are consistent.

[/ QUOTE ] I would agree. One exception, AA, WHEN the room is running Aces Cracked or has a Bad Beat Jackpot. I simply say, "I can't" or "Check it down." when the option comes to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

be careful about that AA cracked/check it down thing, some rooms have a minimum pot size clause before they will pay off.

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

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[ QUOTE ]
No, I don't usually play live limit holdem, so I wasn't aware of all this chopping etiquette and time pots.

[/ QUOTE ]
oh, so youre saying youre a noob?

[/ QUOTE ]
To 20/40 limit games. I usually play tournaments, NLHE, or mixed games.

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

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be careful about that AA cracked/check it down thing, some rooms have a minimum pot size clause before they will pay off.

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Oh why or why couldn't I have been at such a place when 13 consquetive showdown with AA I was cracked. I'd have made a killing. Sadly, I wasn't trying to get cracked, just unlucky and should have been more aggressive in some of the hands as well.

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

It's true that with Aces cracked promotions, there is usually a minimum pot (usually $10-$20).

The onyl place in Vegas that does that program regularly is Excalibur, and though there is no pot minimum that I am aware of, it does need to go to showdown, of course.

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No, I don't usually play live limit holdem, so I wasn't aware of all this chopping etiquette and time pots.

[/ QUOTE ]
oh, so youre saying youre a noob?

[/ QUOTE ]
To 20/40 limit games. I usually play tournaments, NLHE, or mixed games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not trying to pick a fight, but I've had time pots and chopping in Borg. NL as low as 2/5 (I've never not seen time pots in the 5/10 game). Mixed games I've had chopping, never played time pots in them generally...high/low split isn't as becoming to those.

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

I thought one of the reasons to chop is because of the high rake on just the blinds. Paying time doesnt have individual raked pots so I would think you would chop alot less.

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

At Bay 101 for the $200 spread limit game, the blinds were $5 bb, $3 SB, and $2 on the button.

They take the drop if there's a raise, even if there's no flop. So if you raised your button instead of chopping, and the blinds folded, the dealer would take $5, and you'd be risking >$15 to win $3.

I'll never play there again.

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

I thought time pots where only used in higher limit games, maybe around 60/120 or 100/200 on up. It the Borgata practice of using it in a smaller game such as 20/40 used anywhere else?

~ Rick

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

sounds like you are a noob to the choping and time pots. it is considered very bad etiquette to look at your cards and then decide not to chop because you have a good hand. if you don't want to chop, just say so before looking at your cards and no one will be upset with you.

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

A week or 2 ago I made a post asking what to do besides just play tight until the time-pot got paid at CAZ's 40 game which is triggered at the 1st flop seen regardless of size which seemed to me like it would be a real action killer. Boy, was I ever wrong! It usually gets paid w/i the first hand or 3 at the most. I'm saving quite a lot of money.

As to chopping: At CAZ's raked lower limits it's virtually certain that everyone will chop because of the rake HU. When these players first move up they are uncomfortable w/ people who don't want to chop. Add that w/ the fact that chopping is done by something like 90% of players and you caught some grief from somebody who can't keep his mouth shut.

All this said: Either you chop or don't chop. No seeing a big hand and saying 'I'm not chopping THIS time.'

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

My first "chopping" experience went something like this:

A hold xx in the SB, folded to me, I press chips into the pot (not konwing any better)

BB asks me, "Do you want to chop?"

Me: "Chop? What's that?"

Chopping means that we take our money back."

"Why?"

Because this is a smaller game: "There will be no money in the pot."

The table looks at me expectantly, wondering what I am going to do. Seat four pops in with this: "It is the courteous thing to do."

So it is at this point that I remember back to my reading of SSHE and think about the concep of "not losing action." Well, actually, it is at this point that I figure to be dealt BS in the BB more often than not and that chopping is a common courtesy. And since I am such an expert on math, I reason that I will lose money to the house and if we all start not chopping, then no one will ultimately make money off the other player, actually, we will all lose a ton more money because we decided to be idiots and not chop.

Now in the bigger games, where the rake doesn't mean that much, well, I would like for my opponents to not mind losing money to me. I had plenty of practice with this attitude in the small stakes games, and I also remember jumping to many fishes' defense while playing OL, and at least I know why I understand game preservation.

Honestly, Betgo, how could you possibly sit there for a full session, and still have to come to this forum to learn about chopping? I am thinking that your table was pretty vocal.

Dale Carnegie: "Give the fish what they like."

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

[ QUOTE ]
I thought time pots where only used in higher limit games, maybe around 60/120 or 100/200 on up. It the Borgata practice of using it in a smaller game such as 20/40 used anywhere else?

[/ QUOTE ]

At Oaks in Bay Area, there was time on most (all?) games until a couple of years ago. Now it's 15/30 and 30/60, which for that room are the "big" games.

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

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[ QUOTE ]
but chopping should never be based on your cards. Proper etiquette is that you either always chop or never chop, period.

Granted, some people find it rude/annoying when someone never chops, but they shouldn't, so long as they are consistent.

[/ QUOTE ] I would agree. One exception, AA, WHEN the room is running Aces Cracked or has a Bad Beat Jackpot. I simply say, "I can't" or "Check it down." when the option comes to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've had the floor called on me for this.

Always make it a habit to tell the people on your left and right if you chop or not.

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying/CHOPPING SUCKS!
 

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Chopping: I tell people, if I have a 7-deuce, I'll chop. If I have an ace, I ain't chopping, so proceed at your own peril.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's a douchey answer, but it's honest and stated upfront. If the players on either side are unhappy with that "sometimes" answer they should just consider it a "I don't chop" response. No reason to get upset.

Of course, next time around when I ask "wanna chop" and you answer "sure" I respond "cool, because I don't want to chop this time--Raise". Only works once but it should amuse the table and, more importantly, it'll definitely amuse me.

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

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The onyl place in Vegas that does that program regularly is Excalibur, and though there is no pot minimum that I am aware of, it does need to go to showdown, of course.

[/ QUOTE ]

It used to be either 20 or 30 in the 2-6 spread game. The old 1-3 didn't have a promotion/jackpot. The 2/4 nowadays, I have no clue about. I remember a night when Howard, myself, spaceace and several others got a 2/4 or 3/6 game going at the Ex late one night and I got my aces busted by Spaceace and spun the wheel. I hit a double. Then I hit 100. Mind you, it was double wheel spins that month to get rid of the old stud bad beat jackpot. So double whatever you win, 400 and down! SHIP IT!

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

And Harrah's ponies up $100 if your aces are cracked by a fullhouse or better. When they first started that promo it was just "aces cracked" and they lost money on the jackpot drop that day, paying out like 20 of these. So they immediately made it "aces cracked by a straight or better" and still had problems--they weren't losing money anymore, but the high hand jackpots weren't growing much. So they lapsed into this silly "aces cracked by a boat" thing--they'd be better off just nixing this particular idea as ill-conceived and a failure.

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

[ QUOTE ]
Played the 20/40 limit holdem game at Borgata. They had something called a "time pot" where people agree that the time charge comes from the first two decent pots after the dealer change. I found this real annoying as it lead to tight play for several hands. Isn't it much easier to just pay the time charge?

Also, it got passed to me in the SB and the BB asked if I wanted to chop. I had a hand and said raise. BB kept going on and on about this. Other people at the table were saying what a jerk I was. I thought you had to agree ahead of time if you wanted to chop.

I found the customs at this game a little strange and everybody thought I was a noobie because I didn't understand them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I could see about the time pot, but if you arent used to chopping then you could be a newbie. (not because you didnt do it but because you were surprised that someone complained about it)

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Played the 20/40 limit holdem game at Borgata. They had something called a "time pot" where people agree that the time charge comes from the first two decent pots after the dealer change. I found this real annoying as it lead to tight play for several hands. Isn't it much easier to just pay the time charge?

Also, it got passed to me in the SB and the BB asked if I wanted to chop. I had a hand and said raise. BB kept going on and on about this. Other people at the table were saying what a jerk I was. I thought you had to agree ahead of time if you wanted to chop.

I found the customs at this game a little strange and everybody thought I was a noobie because I didn't understand them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I could see about the time pot, but if you arent used to chopping then you could be a newbie. (not because you didnt do it but because you were surprised that someone complained about it)

[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't understand the etiquette and issue. I play mostly online, and play mostly tournaments. I used to play live 2/4-5/10 limit holdem and now play NLHE and 08/Stud8, so I was a noobie to mid limit limit holdem games.

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

You should never chop in a 5/10 and under LHE game. If it looks like the opportunity might arise, find a new game.

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

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You should never chop in a 5/10 and under LHE game. If it looks like the opportunity might arise, find a new game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh.

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

You don't have to particpate in a "timed pot". You can just pay the time.

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

At a Borg 10/20 game today, we started with time pots, but then two guys opted out and paid their own time, which we thought would work out fine. The minimum time pot had to be $120 for the winner to owe half the time. The next pot was about $200 that was chopped between a guy that opted in and a guy that opted out. So then there was a big debate if they guy who opted in owed the first half of time since his share of the pot was <$120. Some said he should have to pay half of the first half of time. Others said the whole pot was >$120, so it was just his bad luck and owed time. Others (like me) said his share of the pot being <$120 meant it didn't qualify so he didn't owe anything, and the next two qualifying pots would pay time. It was such a pain in the ass that we went back to paying our own time from the next time it was due.

Another funny thing is one guy insisted he be the one that put the money up for the time because he was convinced he ends up $5 ahead. We tried to convince him that the person who fronts the money ends up paying the same up as anyone who didn't win a time pot ($0) or the same as anyone who won a time pot if he won one, but he still thought he was right. So we let him put the money up while he thought he was putting one over on us.

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying/CHOPPING SUCKS!
 

[ QUOTE ]


Chopping: I tell people, if I have a 7-deuce, I'll chop. If I have an ace, I ain't chopping, so proceed at your own peril. The way many of us from 2+2 play, they think I am douche bag anyway; so not chopping when I have an advantage is just another rationalization/validation of their own inadequacy for them of why they lose.

[/ QUOTE ]

someone should piss in your coke , please just say you don't chop ever. What some would should do to you is say chop or play out of the small blind, when you say chop from the BB and muck , throw in a raise

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying/CHOPPING SUCKS!
 

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The way many of us from 2+2 play, they think I am douche bag anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is untrue. I play extremely TAG live, and people still seem to like me.

A personality helps.

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

Time pots were invented by nits to allow them extra opportunities to try and screw someone out of something somehow. Splitting time between TWO pots is an even more assinine idea than a regular time pot.

The REAL advantage to the time pot is that if the dealer forgets to take the time out of the pot before it gets pushed, this allows the nit a chance to refuse to pay it altogether. Whether they wind up having to pay it or screwing the unfortunate dealer is a matter for the floor.

I played in a casino where the whole idea of a time pot was dismissed and EVERYONE HAD TO PAY THEIR TIME, PERIOD. Worked like a charm. Never a dispute, no opportunity for nitism, no tight play for several hands, NOTHING! Why anyone anywhere would do it any other way is beyond me.

Al

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying
 

[ QUOTE ]

I played in a casino where the whole idea of a time pot was dismissed and EVERYONE HAD TO PAY THEIR TIME, PERIOD. Worked like a charm. Never a dispute, no opportunity for nitism, no tight play for several hands, NOTHING! Why anyone anywhere would do it any other way is beyond me.

Al

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You have been in Vegas way too long. Perhaps you didn't play big enough when you lived in AC, but there was no nittiness in the AC time pots, they play just as loose and wild as the normal pots.

To all - the answer is simple. If your table choses to have a time pot and you want to sit out of it you can, just pay your time as you normally would - it doesn't set off any alarms and its actually quite common. But don't get in the way of the table's time pot by arguing it shouldn't exist.

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying/CHOPPING SUCKS!
 

I didn't understand the convention. The guy looked at his cards and asked if I wanted to chop. I had a good hand and said "raise". I didn't understand the default was to chop. I thought you had to agree ahead of time. I figured he just wanted to chop because he didn't like his hand, but everyone thought I was the one being a jerk.

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying/CHOPPING SUCKS!
 

You got between them and them playing another hand, hence you are the jerk.

Re: Found \"time pot\" really annoying/CHOPPING SUCKS!
 

[ QUOTE ]
The guy looked at his cards and asked if I wanted to chop. I had a good hand and said "raise".

[/ QUOTE ]
You did not do anything wrong unless you choped before with this guy. You either chop or you don't but you don't get to pick according to your hand. Most of the people chop some don't ( i never do) but once you decide one way or the other you have to do it all the time.