How should a Poker Player Think of Money
 

Phil Laak, poker pro, said something along these lines: "to be a pro poker player, one should have no problem burning a 100 dollar bill."

Whether this is exactly what he said, or whether he never said anything like this at all doesnt matter; i know my conception of money has changed since i started playing poker. What do you guys think about this quote?

Re: How should a Poker Player Think of Money
 

I do feel that quote is ridiculous. Since I started playing poker, I often think of money as a tool that can get more money, in addition to whatever else it does for me. (Like buying bacon-wrapped scallops. I'm hungry.). But there's no gain in lighting $100 on fire. If there is a gain, then that falls under the "tool to get me more money" - maybe people will think I'm crazy and lose more to me, or give me free food. Then I'm lighting it on fire to gain more.

Re: How should a Poker Player Think of Money
 

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Phil Laak, poker pro

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is an idiot

Re: How should a Poker Player Think of Money
 

Thats a ridiculous quote. When I'm playing I strictly think in terms of buyins so that I'm not affected by the value of what I'm throwing around. But I could never bring myself to waste money like that. You need to be able to ignore the value of money while you're sitting at the table, not in your everday life. And if you are someone who can burn $100 and not think twice about it I'd say you're actually worse off as a pro since you'd probably be foolish with your bankroll.

Re: How should a Poker Player Think of Money
 

I tell my non-poker playing friends that to have the proper disregard for money, the minimum you have to be willing to flip a coin for is $500. Otherwise you just won't be able to mentally handle the swings.

Re: How should a Poker Player Think of Money
 

Laak is far from an idiot. He seems to be a very intelligent successful player who was previously a stockbroker. He will often mix metaphors and act like he smokes too much pot, but the point he was making is:

You can't be concerned about the money, otherwise the game will eat you up.

"To the true gambler, money is never an end in itself, but simply a tool; as language is to thought." -- The Cincinnati Kid

Re: How should a Poker Player Think of Money
 

I think it is very useful to have two concepts of money: the poker concept and the everyday concept. In other words: there is money in my bankroll and there is money in my bank account. With the money in my bankroll I am willing to take much bigger risks than with the money in my bank account. Obviously, this division is a bit artificial, since it is all my money, but I find it useful as a psychological tool (read crutch), since I would not be able to disregard the value of my poker chips if I didn't use this separation.

It should be added that I only play recreationally, and don't rely on poker as a source of income. I can't say anything about how a pro should think.

Re: How should a Poker Player Think of Money
 

IMO... The way Innocentius describes the two concepts of money is much like how someone would describe the money invested in a business versus their salary. If a poker player looks at themself as a business, it's not difficult to visualize the distinction (or "crutch" as it were).

I can't remember where I read it, but someone used a story about a player who had to borrow money for a cab or a meal or something. When asked if he needed money for a big game coming up, the player said "No... I have money for THAT".

There is a certain disregard for the money you have to have when you play. Sometimes, you have to put money on the line when you don't really want (when you have pot odds while holding 72 offsuit, for instance), so you have to detach your feelings for that money at times. However (and I don't believe that Laak was being literal), playing recklessly for the sheer enjoyment of doing so (the proverbial "burning a $100 bill") does not bode well for those wanting to make poker a profession.

Re: How should a Poker Player Think of Money
 

I think this quote was actually by Phil Ivey. I remember him saying that he gives that advice to people who are considering taking up poker in an interview.

I thought it was a bit of a ridiculous suggestion too, but the point is that you need to be able to lose $100 without feeling too much anguish. He probably should have said you need to be willing to flip a coin for $100 instead. Many non-gamblers wouldn't be willing to do that even if they were getting 1.1:1 on their money.

Re: How should a Poker Player Think of Money
 

ammunition

Re: How should a Poker Player Think of Money
 

This guy named LowBall Pete went over to his friend Shorty’s house and Pete said to Shorty, “I’ve got to have some money, the baby don’t have any food, the rent’s due and they’re going to throw me out of my house.” So Shorty, who was a good friend of Pete’s said, “well I understand, here’s $100.” Pete said “thanks Shorty, I’ll pay you back as soon as I can.” Shorty said: “well, I know that. Where are you going now?” And Pete said “I’m going over to Al’s house, they have a $200 limit Lowball game going right now.” Shorty said: “well what difference does that make, how are you going to play?” And Pete said “Oh… I’ve got the money for THAT.”

Section: General Poker
Page: 32
Book: Super System

FTW

Re: How should a Poker Player Think of Money
 

Maybe because Phil and many of the rock star players who are so revered in TV events are broke right down to the felt so often they really cannot take the money seriously. Maybe when a degenerate gambler blows 400K on a golf game and has to borrow 300K to get back into a game that night he's really not the super hero he's held up to be.

Re: How should a Poker Player Think of Money
 

It is true that money means nothing to some of the greatest players. Really read up on Stu Ungar. Amazingly talented player who won and lost more money than I can really imagine. I think that to truly be an excellent player, you have to lose respect for money. It becomes nothing more than a score to you, to keep track of winning or losing. Only analogy that even comes close is rating points in chess. Every time you go out there and play a game you risk rating points hoping to gain other rating points. Does anybody really care about their points? Absolutely not, other than wanting more because they are the measuring stick of success.

This is the truly unfortunate aspect of poker. To truly be great at it, you must lose respect for money. You can't fear losing it. You can't want it so badly that you'll do stupid [censored]. You have to use it as a tool to get more. This is the true downfall of poker as a game, imho. This viewpoint that is so necessary to becoming truly great simply crushes players away from the tables. Maybe some can compartmentalize their views on money in terms of "poker money" and "real money", but the more I read about great poker players, the less I think the truly great ones can think this way.

Re: How should a Poker Player Think of Money
 

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This is the truly unfortunate aspect of poker. To truly be great at it, you must lose respect for money. You can't fear losing it. You can't want it so badly that you'll do stupid [censored]. You have to use it as a tool to get more.

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Good post swingdoc. This is why I enjoy reading Brian Townsend's blogs and durrrr's posts, for a glimpse into the mindset of someone who wins and loses 200k+ on a daily basis.

I think it is this willingness to always be on the edge that makes it so difficult to be great in poker or trading. Could a great player make $10 million and then walk away from the game? Anyone know examples of someone who beat the game at the highest level and then quit?

Re: How should a Poker Player Think of Money
 

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Anyone know examples of someone who beat the game at the highest level and then quit?

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Bobby Baldwin

Re: How should a Poker Player Think of Money
 

he runs a casino now I think that I read that he still plays but just recreationally now

Re: How should a Poker Player Think of Money
 

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Phil Laak, poker pro, said something along these lines: "to be a pro poker player, one should have no problem burning a 100 dollar bill."


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Mike Caro actually used to do that at the poker table to show people he had no regard for money. Years later he said he should have done it with 20s and save himself some money.

I don't think its ridiculous but poker players need to view money as as way to keep score and nothing else. If its just a way to keep score then it will be easier to make better decisions. If a player keeps thinking "hey if I lose this $100 I could have bought a couple Xbox 360 games instead. Now I've just wasted $100 and nothing to show for it." Thats how a scared weak tight player thinks every time he sits down.