RE: what to do thread
 

the user is grandgnu, who worked for degen and supposedly bought rakereport. He is really weird, i wouldn't get involved with him.

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

i don't know him that well but what i do know has him much higher on the "decent guy" scale than degen.

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

his first thread on 2+2 http://newarchives.twoplustwo.com/ub.../an/page/page/

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

hahaha so degen is making threats like that via email? i have met grandgnu he seems like a decent guy honestly, but maybe he's a bit weird who knows. this is [censored] though. if i were him i'd fly to thailand and murder degen in his apartment.

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

Wow, I remember that grandgnu thread and thought it was funny =(

As for this, if I were inclined to give him advice it would be to contact a lawyer and the FBI. Obviously I have like none of the info about "what got taken," but whatever. As for finding people to cheaply beat up other people, etc, I'm sure grandgnu could very cheaply find people who would off Degen on the cheap.

Meh.

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

Considering that this is apparently GrandGnu, and the threats are being made by Degen, I think this becomes somewhat serious. We know that Degen is a bit of a sick [censored]. If these threads were to remain up and something did end up happenning, I think 2+2 would be exposed to liability. And even if not exposed to civil liability, 2+2 would certainly be exposed to unwanted media attention. Best course of action I think is to pm the poster, tell him to contact law enforcement, tell him not to make any more posts regarding it, and keep the thread in the mod forum.

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
the user is grandgnu, who worked for degen and supposedly bought rakereport. He is really weird, i wouldn't get involved with him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wholy S*it, this is GrandGnu. From my very pleasant conversations with him trying to get back control of Degen's account after their business transaction was completed I know he was having a lot of problems with Degen. He was planning on removing all mention of Degen from his site because of negative backlash, but he was trying to negotiate with Degen to make that possible. Might all be related. Has anyone pm'ed GrandGnu yet?

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

i haven't got in touch with him because i'm pissed at him for being a retard and posting this in oot

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

Beyond deleting this post, we don't need to do anything here, and it seems wise that 2p2 not get involved.

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

man this [censored] just gets crazier and crazier

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

wow. degen actually talked like he had some remorse in a convo we had. i think citanul has it saved somewhere. what a sick fk.

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

sounds like that is his SOP though nation. to me it just seems like he is really good at saying the right thing at the right time.

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

this is [censored] if it is actually degen

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

i dont think its quite that. when i say remorse it's more like he understood he was [censored] up and wanted to someday make it better. i'll post the convo in a sec.

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

degen: if i ever see you again, i am putting you in the hospital...period
degen: no reply huh you [censored] coward
nation: im right here
________________________________________
Auto Response from degen: i'm away from my computer, leave me a message and i'll get back to you when i return
________________________________________
degen: what the [censored] did i do to you for you to say i have no social morals?
degen: [censored] you dude
nation: uh
nation: "can you tell me where a popeyey's is"
nation: at dennys where you were a complete tool
nation: i have no interest in defending or staying out of a discussion of a racist pos like you
degen: im not racist against indian people
degen: only blacks
degen: and POS?
degen: wtf dude
degen: are you setious?
nation: wtf?
nation: do you really think its about me?
nation: i dont care if you're not racist against me
nation: you really have no morals
nation: no business ethics
nation: and you treat people like [censored]
nation: not to mention saying fu to your landlord and bouncing
nation: its so pathetic
nation: i will laugh the day i hear someone say they truly respect you
nation: because nothing you do is ethical or honorable
nation: choking hookers
nation: bribing your way out of it
nation: might be time to start getting your [censored] together
degen: you just heard somebody say it
nation: i read the blog post
nation: haha
nation: dude
nation: cmon
nation: he has a rakeback email
nation: im not stupid
nation: alright
degen: i'm tlaking about
degen: donttap
nation: yeah
nation: he has a rakeback email
degen: thats not me
degen: donttap
degen: owns a bar
degen: in bangkok
degen: his name is rob
degen: he is my good friend
nation: haha well...i spent a decent amount of time with you
nation: and i know for a fact if you have a chance to [censored] someone
nation: you will do it
nation: you have no ethics or morals
nation: it is laughable for you to say you do
degen: not somebody i deem worthy
degen: i've never [censored] a 2+2er
degen: and i could have done it so many times
nation: you didnt do it bc of rb
nation: you couldnt afford to have a bad name
degen: right now
degen: i could walk
degen: w/ ovver $100k
nation: right
degen: my image is already gone
nation: but you want more
nation: thats the only reason your doing that
nation: you want to continue doing it through grandgnu
nation: that is the only reason you're not walking
nation: so dont [censored] try to tell me that you're wouldnt do it
degen: dude
degen: i
degen: i could walk now
degen: im not going to
nation: did you not read what i said?
nation: the only reason you wont walk
degen: i respect people who deserve respect
nation: is bc of potential of more money
degen: no way
nation: whatever man
degen: i will make over 100k
nation: you can run circles around everyone else
nation: but not me
nation: bc im just as smart as you
degen: we came from different backgrounds dude
nation: yea i was raised to be a decent person
degen: i wasn't
nation: most people on 2+2 are to be honewst
nation: yea well thast no excuse for all this
nation: i was so embarrassed at dennys
nation: the only reason i stayed
nation: was bc i had to take care of him
nation: max
degen: wow
nation: you were complete [censored] in that whole thing
degen: sorry man
nation: they got power shut off twice
degen: you have valid points
degen: sucks bt you do
nation: no hot water
nation: no responsibility man
nation: you considered them friends?
nation: you don't treat people you dont know like that
nation: just dont pay rent
nation: so landlord comes
nation: and is about to kick them out?
nation: billy has to convince him you'll pay, you agree to, and then you don't anyways?
nation: wtf is that man?
degen: i thought you were being a high and might mod
degen: you are right
degen: can't say [censored]
nation: how the [censored] can i have any respect for that and defend you?
degen: you never said this before
nation: bc i dont like controversy
nation: im not an [censored]
nation: i dont try to put people down
degen: ya
nation: you don't deserve to make money off of 2+2
________________________________________
Auto Response from degen: i'm away from my computer, leave me a message and i'll get back to you when i return
________________________________________
nation: everyone knows you sold to grandgnu as a sham
nation: there is zero chance that rakeaid account will be allowed to post
degen: huh?
degen: dude
degen: he bought the site
nation: yea dude did you forget what you told me about him?
degen: site makes no money anyway
nation: i know what that site is worth
degen: has no traffic
nation: you told me he works for [censored] money
degen: what is it worth?
nation: more than he has
degen: lol
degen: it used to be
nation: you told me you cant believe people like him keep working for pennies
nation: you couldnt believe he keeps doing it
degen: haha
degen: ya and he quit
degen: want to see the email he sent me?
nation: no
nation: i really don't
nation: snitching on someone for the irs?
degen: i treat 2+2ers well
degen: i didn't do that
nation: haha man...that is just so sad
degen: i wanted to scare him
nation: listen to yourself dude
nation: you've gone into the depths of society
degen: ya i understand
degen: i'm a scum bag
degen: i wish i wan't
degen: but i am
degen: what am i supposed to do hang myself?
degen: i'm also a very smart businessman
nation: wtf man
nation: you can make it in business
nation: without being a scumbag
degen: ya no [censored]
degen: i'm making $50k a month right now
degen: i treat my customers great
nation: yeah but no one likes you
degen: thats not true
degen: the mods dont
nation: your gf's in thailand
nation: don't like you man
degen: my friends in thailand and tons of 2+2ers
nation: they like you bc you take care of them
nation: and for potential of a better life
degen: ya cool, good trade
nation: haha thats what im trying to say...you're paying for it...its not real affection
nation: but whatever
nation: i don't care
degen: dude
nation: i think the thailand thing is cool
degen: i treat my customers well
degen: they aren't complaining right now
nation: and i would have come visit just to have some fun
nation: but, i have no respect for you
degen: ya i can understand that, billyjex told me the same thing,, floored me
degen: like this....
nation: i mean, what did you expect after the dennys thing, the popeyes thing, and the way you treated billyjex and slider
nation: i mean, if it was random people
nation: i still would have zero respect
nation: but these are people you call friends?
degen: ya that was very selfish
degen: alright my bad man, i thought you were just being an ass....you have valid points
degen: take care
nation: later

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

LOL cant buy class..... also can someone link the "what to do" thread, I can find it.

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
LOL cant buy class..... also can someone link the "what to do" thread, I can find it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you being serious?

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
LOL cant buy class..... also can someone link the "what to do" thread, I can find it.

[/ QUOTE ]

tilt your head down 6 degrees

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

maybe im missing something but I opened that link. I was expecting degen to have been making threats to grandgnu?? What is wrong with that linked post?

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

It's slightly confusing people in the other thread people started talking about Tex and Vig.

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

brother, who is soon to be lawyer, says that "This one is a federal crime. I'd have to check, but I'd guess 10-15 in a PMITA prison."

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
brother, who is soon to be lawyer, says that "This one is a federal crime. I'd have to check, but I'd guess 10-15 in a PMITA prison."

[/ QUOTE ]

Your brother is correct, however won't be prosecuted if degen is in thailand (not going to extradite for something like this).

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

jman is going a bad job of not being on 2p2 and resting up imo.

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

jman,

i doubt that degen was actually intending to never set foot in the united states again.

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
jman is going a bad job of not being on 2p2 and resting up imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol, yeah I suck at that. Lying in bed all day is freaking boring as hell.

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

nation, is this convo from recent days, or like several weeks ago?

either way, sign me up for the 'degen is way creepier than txredman ever was' bandwagon. he sounds like a guy set to find jesus after he's imprisoned for a crime he (says he) didn't commit

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

All,

If I were 2+2 I'd be thinking seriously about what sort of stuff is allowed on this forum. Seems like one of these conflicts stemming from here is likely to spill over into real life sooner or later, and at that point jasont lawsuit threats are going to seem like a pleasant memory.

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

this forum, meaning the mod forum?

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

adanthar,

took place few weeks ago right when he was banned.

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
All,

If I were 2+2 I'd be thinking seriously about what sort of stuff is allowed on this forum. Seems like one of these conflicts stemming from here is likely to spill over into real life sooner or later, and at that point jasont lawsuit threats are going to seem like a pleasant memory.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you eliminate to prevent this? Obviously the thread in discussion is out of line, and it was quickly deleted.

I mean, this is essentially an argument about rakeback. Given that it seems like huge % of 2p2s add revenue comes from affiliates, is it really possible to remove all discussion thereof (and the related shenanigans and shady behavior) from the site?

The biggest thing this points out to me is that when we've got somebody like Degen around, we need to be a lot more agressive in getting them off the site, both as a poster and an addvertsier.

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

Mat: No, poorly written, I meant on 2+2 overall. This forum is not a problem.

However, tons of situations that develop in/around 2+2 (prop bets and loans come to mind) have some potential to escalate into real-world stuff. So much more possible when big money is involved. This just seems to be coming up more and more frequently recently as the site grows, and I just think it's something that the site needs to keep a close eye on.

Dids: There's no easy fix. Just a huge problem with potentially huge ramifications on 2+2. Here's the thing. 2+2 was used to create the "WTF VIG" thread, which was super active. Let's say something happened to Vig. 2+2 could easily be liable in that a multi-hundred thread post attacking Vig and discussing how to find him and other such stuff was allowed to go on here. Similar situation with the dude who supposedly ripped off Grim. Let's say that really did happen and someone used info from that super long discussion to go track that dude down and f with him. These are the types of situations where 2+2 could face some pretty significant legal exposure.

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

Do we have any active threads right now that bring these concerns to mind? I want one of our lawyers to take a look and give us some clear guidelines.

I know I'm ok with the writing competition as we could easily make up a couple hundred bucks in prize money in the event of a default (though that would nix any future events of that nature).

These other issues need to be evaluated by an expert.

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do we have any active threads right now that bring these concerns to mind? I want one of our lawyers to take a look and give us some clear guidelines.

I know I'm ok with the writing competition as we could easily make up a couple hundred bucks in prize money in the event of a default (though that would nix any future events of that nature).

These other issues need to be evaluated by an expert.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll make it clear if any other sponsors come forward, final payment will not be enforced or discussed if it isn't forthcoming, and the matter will rest, no matter if any sponsors don't stump up.

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

Mat,

No specific thread brought this to mind, just the seeming pattern of more frequent occurrence of this sort of stuff (specifically, the situation w/ Tex and Vig's identity, this grandgnu thing, the Grim/Rick thing, etc.). Seems like there are more and more situations developing (to be expected with more traffic) on 2+2 with potential to spill over into some sort of real-world confrontation, and depending on what sort of threads happen on 2+2, I imagine 2+2 could face some serious liability there.

To be more specific:

2+2ers go and shoot Vig, Degen, and Rick. They/their families sue 2+2. If I were 2+2 I'd want to know what sort of liability this site could reasonably face in that situation given the types of lengthy threads/discussions that were allowed to go on regarding these people/situations. The answer to that question would impact what I allowed on this site.

I don't think things like the writing contest are an issue at all.

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

Diablo,

Your thoughts on the BBV thread feature the guy plundering high school ass and bragging about it like crazy?

Stuff like that, while entertaining, seems iffy, although I don't know how you don't allow that but do allow trip reports.

Seems like mostly it's just up to mods to use super good judgement.

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
Mat,

No specific thread brought this to mind, just the seeming pattern of more frequent occurrence of this sort of stuff (specifically, the situation w/ Tex and Vig's identity, this grandgnu thing, the Grim/Rick thing, etc.). Seems like there are more and more situations developing (to be expected with more traffic) on 2+2 with potential to spill over into some sort of real-world confrontation, and depending on what sort of threads happen on 2+2, I imagine 2+2 could face some serious liability there.

To be more specific:

2+2ers go and shoot Vig, Degen, and Rick. They/their families sue 2+2. If I were 2+2 I'd want to know what sort of liability this site could reasonably face in that situation given the types of lengthy threads/discussions that were allowed to go on regarding these people/situations. The answer to that question would impact what I allowed on this site.

I don't think things like the writing contest are an issue at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

El Diablo,

I think the easy solution here is for 2+2 to move its operations to the Isle of Mann.

Regards,
--jman220

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

Dibs,

Link? Sounds like a pretty sweet thread!

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Mat,

No specific thread brought this to mind, just the seeming pattern of more frequent occurrence of this sort of stuff (specifically, the situation w/ Tex and Vig's identity, this grandgnu thing, the Grim/Rick thing, etc.). Seems like there are more and more situations developing (to be expected with more traffic) on 2+2 with potential to spill over into some sort of real-world confrontation, and depending on what sort of threads happen on 2+2, I imagine 2+2 could face some serious liability there.

To be more specific:

2+2ers go and shoot Vig, Degen, and Rick. They/their families sue 2+2. If I were 2+2 I'd want to know what sort of liability this site could reasonably face in that situation given the types of lengthy threads/discussions that were allowed to go on regarding these people/situations. The answer to that question would impact what I allowed on this site.

I don't think things like the writing contest are an issue at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

El Diablo,

I think the easy solution here is for 2+2 to move its operations to the Isle of Mann.

Regards,
--jman220

[/ QUOTE ]

I call vice president

Re: RE: what to do thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Mat,

No specific thread brought this to mind, just the seeming pattern of more frequent occurrence of this sort of stuff (specifically, the situation w/ Tex and Vig's identity, this grandgnu thing, the Grim/Rick thing, etc.). Seems like there are more and more situations developing (to be expected with more traffic) on 2+2 with potential to spill over into some sort of real-world confrontation, and depending on what sort of threads happen on 2+2, I imagine 2+2 could face some serious liability there.

To be more specific:

2+2ers go and shoot Vig, Degen, and Rick. They/their families sue 2+2. If I were 2+2 I'd want to know what sort of liability this site could reasonably face in that situation given the types of lengthy threads/discussions that were allowed to go on regarding these people/situations. The answer to that question would impact what I allowed on this site.

I don't think things like the writing contest are an issue at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

El Diablo,

I think the easy solution here is for 2+2 to move its operations to the Isle of Mann.

Regards,
--jman220

[/ QUOTE ]

I call vice president

[/ QUOTE ]

The guy with no power who gets no credit but is still the second one to die in the event of a military coup?