Where does Kobe rank among NBA superstars?
 

I've always believed that the difference between Kobe and any of 5-6 sg/sf type players wouldn't mean the difference between an NBA championship in the earlier Shaq years. Now that we've seen him on his own, where does he rate? I don't know best how to come to the conclusion, whether you're trying to build a franchise or win this year. Base your decision off either assumption. Is it unrealistic to think that Kobe is in the same group as guys like Carmelo Anthony, Tracy McGrady, Paul Pierce, and Gilbert Arenas, right below the top shelf of Lebron/Wade?

Re: Where does Kobe rank among NBA superstars?
 

He's the best player in the league. So I guess he ranks pretty high.

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#1

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#1

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Correct

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#1

Re: Where does Kobe rank among NBA superstars?
 

dammit. carry on.

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Is it unrealistic to think that Kobe is in the same group as guys like Carmelo Anthony, Tracy McGrady, Paul Pierce, and Gilbert Arenas, right below the top shelf of Lebron/Wade?

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No, he's not in the same group as Anthony, McGrady, Pierce, or Arenas. He's way above them.

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Is it unrealistic to think that Kobe is in the same group as guys like Carmelo Anthony, Tracy McGrady, Paul Pierce, and Gilbert Arenas,

[/ QUOTE ] Its unrealistic to think these guys are anywhere near Kobe's level. T-Mac and Pierce will never get to his level, Carmelo isn't the same type of player, so he won't get to Kobe's level, and if Gilbert learns to play D, maybe he gets to Kobe's level. I am not even sure that Wade is at Kobe's level. I think all signs point to Lebron either getting to his level, or even surpasing it.

Re: Where does Kobe rank among NBA superstars?
 

Kobe>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>everyone else.

How the Lakers haven't managed to get him any help is beyond me. I hate the Lakers but it is such a waste especially when you have Jackson back coaching the team.

Re: Where does Kobe rank among NBA superstars?
 

I also want to add Kobe shats all over Nash.

Re: Where does Kobe rank among NBA superstars?
 

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Is it unrealistic to think that Kobe is in the same group as guys like Carmelo Anthony, Tracy McGrady, Paul Pierce, and Gilbert Arenas,

[/ QUOTE ] Its unrealistic to think these guys are anywhere near Kobe's level. T-Mac and Pierce will never get to his level, Carmelo isn't the same type of player, so he won't get to Kobe's level, and if Gilbert learns to play D, maybe he gets to Kobe's level. I am not even sure that Wade is at Kobe's level. I think all signs point to Lebron either getting to his level, or even surpasing it.

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Doesn't Kobe's superior D and ability to light it up from behind the 3 point line put him pretty far above Wade?

Re: Where does Kobe rank among NBA superstars?
 

"I don't know best how to come to the conclusion, whether you're trying to build a franchise or win this year. Base your decision off either assumption."

if we're basing our decision on building a franchise then this discussion has been done a ton of times in the last few months and Kobe isn't #1.

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I think the Lakers have a really nice set of support pieces right now, especially if Bynum and Farmar continue to develop. The Lakers were surpasses most expectations early in the season, but losing Odom and Walton for so many games really, really hurt them. They may not be marquee players, but they both fit well into the triangle offense and force teams to cover a second option instead of double/triple teaming Kobe


To OPs first point, I also think a number of players could have won some rings with Shaq during that run, but that does not mean they are on Kobe's level.

Re: Where does Kobe rank among NBA superstars?
 

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"I don't know best how to come to the conclusion, whether you're trying to build a franchise or win this year. Base your decision off either assumption."

if we're basing our decision on building a franchise then this discussion has been done a ton of times in the last few months and Kobe isn't #1.

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The reason you wouldn't build a franchise around him is because of age, not because he's behind other players.

Re: Where does Kobe rank among NBA superstars?
 

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"I don't know best how to come to the conclusion, whether you're trying to build a franchise or win this year. Base your decision off either assumption."

if we're basing our decision on building a franchise then this discussion has been done a ton of times in the last few months and Kobe isn't #1.

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The reason you wouldn't build a franchise around him is because of age, not because he's behind other players.

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Sure, it doesn't change the fact that he wouldn't be #1

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"I don't know best how to come to the conclusion, whether you're trying to build a franchise or win this year. Base your decision off either assumption."

if we're basing our decision on building a franchise then this discussion has been done a ton of times in the last few months and Kobe isn't #1.

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The reason you wouldn't build a franchise around him is because of age, not because he's behind other players.

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Sure, it doesn't change the fact that he wouldn't be #1

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if we definied the parameters, kobe definitely might be my number 1. if its 2-4 years, i'd take kobe #1. he's just entering his prime, imo.

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kobe is the best player in the league, followed by wade

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I also want to add Kobe shats all over Nash.

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Aren't they completely different types of players?

Kobe's supporting cast must be dismal if all the #1 player in the league can do is muster up a 6, 7, or 8th seed every year. The thing is though, his supporting cast isn't that dismal.

I'm also surprised Kobe's putrid personality doesn't bother anyone. I submit that personality absolutely matters if you're 'trying to pick a player to build a team around'

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The thing is though, his supporting cast isn't that dismal.

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It's worse than dismal. So bad that Smush Parker still plays significant minutes and Luke Walton is a critical player on the team.

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I'm also surprised Kobe's putrid personality doesn't bother anyone. I submit that personality absolutely matters if you're 'trying to pick a player to build a team around'

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I also think this is a huge problem and everyone is underrating it, given the chance I would certainly take a less skilled player (within reason) without all the problems Kobe brings.

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I think personality or lack thereof is overrated; MJ rode everyone on the Bulls mercilessly.

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I think personality or lack thereof is overrated; MJ rode everyone on the Bulls mercilessly.

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MJ didn't play with a better player on his team through most of his career. Kobe's personality played a big part in Shaq's transfer, how can that be overrated?

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Kobe is in a class by himself, then there is a class that is empty, and then there is the class w/ wade, james, agent zero, melo, dirk, duncan, nash.

Also, I don't think that Lebron will ever reach his full potential, I think he will be very good, but not the 2nd coming of magic, like he could become. He just doesn't seem to have the want to be his best. Anyone else feel this way?

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I also want to add Kobe shats all over Nash.

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Yeah, but Nash is a winner and single handedly turns all of his teammates into All Stars. What has Kobe ever won?

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I think personality or lack thereof is overrated; MJ rode everyone on the Bulls mercilessly.

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MJ didn't play with a better player on his team ever.

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I also want to add Kobe shats all over Nash.

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Aren't they completely different types of players?

Kobe's supporting cast must be dismal if all the #1 player in the league can do is muster up a 6, 7, or 8th seed every year. The thing is though, his supporting cast isn't that dismal.

I'm also surprised Kobe's putrid personality doesn't bother anyone. I submit that personality absolutely matters if you're 'trying to pick a player to build a team around'

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his supporting cast is so horrendous that, coupled with odom being out for long stretches this year....kobe should be the MVP for even having this team in the playoffs in the west

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Its tough to rank perimeter players and post players together, so I'll separate the two. These rankings are in no particular order, just tiered.

Tier #1 perimeter players
Kobe
Wade
Nash
Just missed out: Lebron, Pierce


Tier #1 post players
Garnett
Duncan
Just missed out: Amare, Yao, Dwight, Bosh, Shaq


Dirk is also tier #1 but I wasn't sure which group to include him in.

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The thing is though, his supporting cast isn't that dismal.

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It's worse than dismal. So bad that Smush Parker still plays significant minutes and Luke Walton is a critical player on the team.

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I have no clue why every NBA thread in here turns into a STeve Nash thread, but I would like to point out that before coming to Phoenix a guy like Diaw was considered no better than Parker/Walton. And Tim Thomas now that hes left Phoenix isn't doing anything at all.

Nash and Kobe are very different players, so its tough to compare the two, and its tough to say who is the better overall player. Both are phenomenal though.

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I'll just ask this here, since this is turning into the Steve Nash Thread Du Jour.

In football, players often have success because they are put into the right system (see: Trotter in Philadelphia). Likewise, players can fail if they are put into the wrong system (see: Trotter in Washington). Does this happen in basketball? A big part of the pro-Nash argument is that he makes all the players around him better. How much of that success, if any, is due to Phoenix's system/coaching?

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Also, I don't think that Lebron will ever reach his full potential, I think he will be very good, but not the 2nd coming of magic, like he could become. He just doesn't seem to have the want to be his best. Anyone else feel this way?

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yes. I think this "drive" and "wanting to be the best" are pretty important factors here. a large reason why MJ was the best was b/c he was so ruthless and determined and abhored losing at anything. Ditto for guys like Larry and Magic. I just don't get that sense from Lebron, who seems to float through some games. I think you either have this drive or you don't, and for various reasons it's probably harder for a guy like Lebron who was annoted the King when he was in high school, and has had his crew and the industry telling him how awesome he was through all his formative years. This has got to have an affect on him.

MJ, as awesome as he was, was never considered to be the 2nd coming like Lebron. he was the #3 pick in the NBA draft, while Lebron was considered the best #1 pick in 20 years or whatever.

even through the begining of MJ's NBA career people just considered him to be a 1 dimensional player who would never win b/c he didn't pass enough, rebound, etc. he drove himself and continually improved.

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um...lets not forget the cavs are 1.5 games out of the top seed, while lebron is averaging 27/7/6 with a miserable cast of teammates....at 22 years old

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um...lets not forget the cavs are 1.5 games out of the top seed, while lebron is averaging 27/7/6 with a miserable cast of teammates....at 22 years old

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and the youngest player ever to reach 356353456 different records, none of that matters, he doesn't have the "drive", go figure.

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um...lets not forget the cavs are 1.5 games out of the top seed, while lebron is averaging 27/7/6 with a miserable cast of teammates....at 22 years old

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and the youngest player ever to reach 356353456 different records, none of that matters, he doesn't have the "drive", go figure.

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a) maybe I came off too strong. my main point was that to be considered the #1 player ever, you need to have a transcendent drive to be the best player ever. it's going to be hard for anyone to have that, particularly for Lebron b/c of the environment he grew up in, where he has been told that since he was 13 or whatever.

b) age records are fairly meaningless as compared to what guys did 15 or 30 years ago, just b/c of people develop so much faster now.

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a) maybe I came off too strong. my main point was that to be considered the #1 player ever, you need to have a transcendent drive to be the best player ever. it's going to be hard for anyone to have that, particularly for Lebron b/c of the environment he grew up in, where he has been told that since he was 13 or whatever.


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Pundits seem to believe that Jordan's "drive" was higher than anyone and that Lebron doesn't have that drive because he takes games off, while Jordan never did.

But what about Kobe? People say that Kobe has that drive. But where was that drive when he gave up on Game 7 of the playoffs last year against Phoenix? Did Kobe catch no long lasting flack from that incident?

Pippen seemed to be unable to shake the effects of his "migraine" and his pouting because Kukoc was supposed to get the final shot. So why didn't Kobe catch any long lasting effects from basically giving up on his team in a Game 7?

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Dirk, KG, and Tim Duncan are all better than Kobe Bryant by a good margin IMO.

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Steve Nash>Kevin Durant>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>>>>>>>&gt ; Jesus>>>>>>>>>>>& gt;>>>>>>>>>>>&gt ;>>>>>>>>>>>>& gt;>>>>>Kobe.

Re: Where does Kobe rank among NBA superstars?
 

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Tier #1 perimeter players
Kobe
Wade
Nash
Just missed out: Lebron, Pierce


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TMac is a much much superior player to Pierce. Also, everybody says that Wade is much better than Lebron, but that's only because Wade plays with Shaq, and even so the difference is rather marginal.

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But what about Kobe? People say that Kobe has that drive. But where was that drive when he gave up on Game 7 of the playoffs last year against Phoenix? Did Kobe catch no long lasting flack from that incident?

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I don't know, but I think it speaks to how rare the combo of Transcendent talent + Transcendent drive is.

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So why didn't Kobe catch any long lasting effects from basically giving up on his team in a Game 7?

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maybe it has something to due with his overall rep being hurt the last couple of years b/c of on/off court incidents, so it wasn't that shocking to some people. I dunno.

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"TMac is a much much superior player to Pierce."

lololol

edit: just wanted to remind people that pierce brought the celtics two games away from the NBA finals with a supporting cast of Tony Delk, Eric Williams, Antoine Walker, and Tony Battie, with Rodney Rogers as the 6th man.

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Dirk, KG, and Tim Duncan are all better than Kobe Bryant by a good margin IMO.

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LOLOLOL