Shaundeeb vs Fossilman today (5CD!!!)
 

For those who don't know who "shaundeeb" is, he's a high-volume MTTer at Stars and a regular in the MTT forums. He specializes in massively multi-tabling the 180 mans SNGs and has won the weekly TLB several times. He won last week and drew Greg Raymer for his heads-up match.

I love shaun because he chose LIMIT 5 CARD DRAW as the game. I never watch these things, but I'll have to make an exception today.

Re: Shaundeeb vs Fossilman today (5CD!!!)
 

What time?

Re: Shaundeeb vs Fossilman today (5CD!!!)
 

Ahh. It starts in less than three hours!

I'm invited to dinner, but I guess I might be able to sneak away to see the match [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I hope Raymer is good at draw. It would be a pity if he got crushed too soon. What about taking a note about the most interesting hands and post some of them in the forum?

Re: Shaundeeb vs Fossilman today (5CD!!!)
 

It's at 2 PM Eastern.

Re: Shaundeeb vs Fossilman today (5CD!!!)
 

ill watch too, this can be fun.
i saw raymer play a lot of 2-7 triple draw on stars and he was really good, but here he needs teh luck [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Shaundeeb vs Fossilman today (5CD!!!)
 

Thanks, I'll definitely be railtarding this.

Re: Shaundeeb vs Fossilman today (5CD!!!)
 

Shawn is Freddy's son, no?

Re: Shaundeeb vs Fossilman today (5CD!!!)
 

this says it all:

[ QUOTE ]

FossilMan: I wish he had picked triple draw
shaundeeb: keep getting 2pair
FossilMan: more fun than this


[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Shaundeeb vs Fossilman today (5CD!!!)
 

Greg is very passive with draws.

Re: Shaundeeb vs Fossilman today (5CD!!!)
 

PokerStars Game #8965910465: Tournament #45118158, Freeroll 5 Card Draw Limit - Match Round I, Level II (30/60) - 2007/03/18 - 14:22:38 (ET)
Table '45118158 1' 2-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: FossilMan (1540 in chips)
Seat 2: shaundeeb (1460 in chips)
FossilMan: posts small blind 15
shaundeeb: posts big blind 30
*** DEALING HANDS ***
FossilMan: raises 30 to 60
shaundeeb: calls 30
shaundeeb: discards 2 cards
FossilMan: discards 1 card
shaundeeb: checks
FossilMan: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
shaundeeb: shows [3d 4d Tc 7h 4c] (a pair of Fours)
FossilMan: mucks hand
shaundeeb collected 120 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 120 | Rake 0
Seat 1: FossilMan (button) (small blind) mucked
Seat 2: shaundeeb (big blind) showed [3d 4d Tc 7h 4c] and won (120) with a pair of Fours

Greg should've bet here.

Re: Shaundeeb vs Fossilman today (5CD!!!)
 

Good call.

PokerStars Game #8966220323: Tournament #45118158, Freeroll 5 Card Draw Limit - Match Round I, Level IV (100/200) - 2007/03/18 - 14:40:46 (ET)
Table '45118158 1' 2-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: FossilMan (1310 in chips)
Seat 2: shaundeeb (1690 in chips)
FossilMan: posts the ante 10
shaundeeb: posts the ante 10
shaundeeb: posts small blind 50
FossilMan: posts big blind 100
*** DEALING HANDS ***
FossilMan said, "yep"
shaundeeb: raises 100 to 200
FossilMan: calls 100
FossilMan: discards 3 cards
shaundeeb: discards 3 cards
FossilMan: checks
shaundeeb: bets 200
FossilMan: calls 200
*** SHOW DOWN ***
shaundeeb: shows [3h Tc 3s 2h 6c] (a pair of Threes)
FossilMan: shows [Ts 6d Js 8s Th] (a pair of Tens)
FossilMan collected 820 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 820 | Rake 0
Seat 1: FossilMan (big blind) showed [Ts 6d Js 8s Th] and won (820) with a pair of Tens
Seat 2: shaundeeb (button) (small blind) showed [3h Tc 3s 2h 6c] and lost with a pair of Threes

Re: Shaundeeb vs Fossilman today (5CD!!!)
 

You beat me to it. I agree. Raymer should bluff. It seems so obvious that shaun had a weak hand, and Raymer still has to bet to win the pot.

Re: Shaundeeb vs Fossilman today (5CD!!!)
 

So who won?

Re: Shaundeeb vs Fossilman today (5CD!!!)
 

Fossilman won. I have a feeling that shaundeeb is the better draw player (I've seen him playing 5/10, 10/20 quite a bit) but I wasn't particularly impressed (sorry shaun). He's definitely good, though,

Re: Shaundeeb vs Fossilman today (5CD!!!)
 

really how much skill is there in this?

Re: Shaundeeb vs Fossilman today (5CD!!!)
 

[ QUOTE ]
really how much skill is there in this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think any single HU SnG is mostly luck. If the two of them played a few more, I think I'd give the edge to shaundeeb assuming neither adjusted their play.

Re: Shaundeeb vs Fossilman today (5CD!!!)
 

[ QUOTE ]
really how much skill is there in this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you talking about draw poker or HU poker matches in general?

I'm of the opinion that while it's not the hardest form of poker to learn, there is definitely skill in 5CD and a skilled player will quickly skin an unskilled player.

That being said, even though Raymer admittedly has not played much 5CD, a player with his brain and his knowledge of poker theory who has played lots of other non-holdem games would be up to speed very quickly if he chose to play regularly. While Shaundeeb picked draw partially because of Raymer's lack of time playing the game, I think he would have fared much better if he had played a PokerStars pro with less experience in non-holdem games and less of a grasp of poker theory; names like Moneymaker, Rousso, and Ramdin come to mind. Hell, I don't think Victor Ramdin is any good at NLHE.