Crossfit Discussion
 

Since I'm a fairly well known hater on Crossfit. I'd like to discuss why it sucks or why it rocks. I've never done crossfit, at some point in my life I may try it. But it does not suit my current goals.

Thoughts:
1) It is far better than most programs.
2) I don't like its non-specific nature. It is very "general". You can't focus on one thing while doing crossfit. You'll never become "elite" in terms of physical potential.
3) I really really like the lower volume. Today's workout has you doing very low intensity work with a high volume. I like this paired training and do this occasionally myself with higher intensity. Though some days you just have a O-lift max day while is very low in volume.
4) It is good for a recreational athlete, who wants to be "in shape" but doesn't have any sport specific (or otherwise specific goals).
5) I like the organization of it and how anyone can just pop on this site and scale up or down the WOD and go for it.

1C5,

I think you converted from crossfit for a specific goal. Maybe you can explain your thoughts behind why you did this, what you like about each, and why.

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

1) Agree

2) I kind of dissagree with you here. Crossfit can be simply doing the WOD everyday and you a right, just doing that will make it essentially impossible to reach an elite level in anything (I highly doubt anyone has reached lvl 4 in their fitness standards by doing the WOD). However, there is more to crossfit than the WOD. A weekly schedule of O-lift/Squat/deadlift + metcon/rest/metcon/o-lift/rest is crossfit with an emphasis on explosive strength. I guaruntee that a relatively gifted athlete sticking to that schedule will be putting up bw+ snatches, 1.5xbw power cleans and 2.5xbw deadlifts within a couple years. Additionally they will have the metabolic fitness to complete Fran in less than 5 minutes and probably do 20-25+ dead hang pullups.

4) More than that, crossfit principles have been applied to baseball and footbal teams with great success.

5)This is definitely the best part. Also because it is rarely more than 2 movements a day, it is excellent for teaching technique. When a workout comes a long like 10 single hang cleans you know a person with a poor or nonexistant clean will be able to drastically improve their technique just by dedicating so much time.

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

No, I think you got me mixed up, I never did crossfit and never heard of it until I read about it here. I just do my own workout plan.

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

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No, I think you got me mixed up, I never did crossfit and never heard of it until I read about it here. I just do my own workout plan.

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Doh, I meant Smiley. Apologies.

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

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No, I think you got me mixed up, I never did crossfit and never heard of it until I read about it here. I just do my own workout plan.

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Doh, I meant Smiley. Apologies.

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Oh, I became obsessed with olympic lifting so I cut out almost all of the timed workout stuff. I should really start doing them again at least once a week.

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

Smiley,

Timed workouts are also done with EDT. IIRC that is a pure hypertrophy program. That involves doing you 10RM as many times as possible in a 20min window (15 after a while on the program). I'm considering doing this in the future after I get done with my more immediate goals (which should take me through the end of the year).

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

check out the two latest vids on the crossfit front page. I'm thinking of drinking the kool-aid.

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/C...OHStrength.wmv

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/C...nHeavyFran.wmv

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

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check out the two latest vids on the crossfit front page. I'm thinking of drinking the kool-aid.

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/C...OHStrength.wmv

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/C...nHeavyFran.wmv

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I can't hate on a program that has you doing heavy triples 2x a week. But I don't like their weirdo diet stuff (why do they not just say follow a Zone?). As an aside, all the guys pictured would be huge and strong regardless of what they did. Well the first dude is little, but he'd still be strong. Genetics plays a huge role.

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

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But I don't like their weirdo diet stuff (why do they not just say follow a Zone?).

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The entire contents of the TOC of their FAQ wrt nutrition:


7. Nutrition

* 7.1. What's the best Zone book/reference to get?
* 7.2. How about a Zone block chart?
* 7.3. My Zone calculations seem awfully low in calories; is this enough food to maintain or gain mass?
* 7.4. How do I get started with the Zone?

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

shemp,

Is there something wrong with just saying 30/30/40?

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7.3. My Zone calculations seem awfully low in calories; is this enough food to maintain or gain mass?

There are more calories than you see; when counting Zone blocks, you only consider the primary nutrient type (e.g., treat fruits, vegetables, and any grains as a carb source alone. Eat lean protein and don't count its fat content towards your 1.5g of fat per block. Eat healthy fats and ignore any non fat macronutrients they have. Don't count the protein in tortilla, banana, or pecans, etc. Consider them carbs or fat. Treat peanut butter as a fat. You wouldn't apply the protein and carb totals in peanut butter towards your block count.

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I mean, why bother to learn a "zone block"? It just seems they intentionally try to "crossfitize" everything to make it different somehow. Instead of viewing the program for what it is, they made something that is cult-like and unable to be replaced.

Here's 7.2 http://www.mitymous.net/weights/zoneblox.htm

What does it mean? I have no clue. Why can't they just simplify it and be like "Follow Zone, don't eat a lot of saturated fat. Enjoy."

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

It's funny. I don't consider myself a crossfitter. I'm complete uninterested in the zone or anything they have to tell me about diet.

You come along and complain that they ought to recommend the "Zone Diet." I point out that they do. You now shift the goal posts to questioning why they don't talk about macro-nutrient ratios-- but they do. You question their use of zone blocks -- and it is not even theirs, but rather comes from Dr. Sears!

I mean, the Shemp fact scattergun, my own ability to spout nonsense is so dwarfed by your ability to spew. It is impressive.

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

Haha.

No, I think if you read my previous arguments. I've always had these feelings and their pretty much what I've said. Why don't they just simplify what their feelings are on an optimal diet?

I don't know too much about the whole blocking idea but I find it needlessly complex and somewhat silly. I mean... are grams that hard to keep up with?

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

They recommend the zone.

They tell people what it means to follow it and how to follow it.

The blocking idea comes from the creator of the zone diet.

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

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They recommend the zone.

They tell people what it means to follow it and how to follow it.

The blocking idea comes from the creator of the zone diet.

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Whackness. I'll concede. I think I structured what was my point very poorly.

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

the goal of crossfit is to be above average at many things, so while you may never be an elite olympic lifter, middle distance runner, sprinter, etc. you will be pretty good at all of these things, far better than someone who does bodybuilding style workouts and slow cardio. face it, if you re like most people you'll never be elite at the above mentioned activities anyway, unless you have great genetics. with crossfit, almost anyone can achieve an elite level of condtioning, work output, capacity, etc. for health and functional fitness this is way more important than snatching 300 pounds or being able to run a marathon.

i've done almost every kind of workout, from powerlifting, olympic lifting(with angel spassov, google him if you dont know who he is), ashtanga yoga, thai boxing, bjj, and freestyle wrestling. crossfit and rosstraining workouts are probably harder and require more of a gutcheck(if you push yourself 100%) than any of them.

i dont follow their program to the letter, and i could care less about their dietary advice, but they have some great workouts, esp the filthy 50, and the named workouts like cindy and fran. i'm 30 yrs old, 6 2 and about 220 pounds, im happy with my muscle size so crossfit(and rosstraining) are perfect for someone like me. i honestly dont think ive ever been in better shape in my life than i am now, and ive only been doing these mixed modal workouts for about 4 months.

i do 2 strength days(mostly max, some explosive) per week, and 3 or 4 conditioning days, this has worked out great for me, i dont think i ll ever go back to just doing weights and cardio

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

i loved CF in theory but in practicality it didn't work for me becuase i was so weak...so for now, i'm just doing working on getting stronger with the eventual goal of cutting back strength days and incorporating more CF per week. Another reason it's nice cause you don't have to do any programming, you just log on and follow...

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

The site sure does read like a cult, especially the forum.

Its not a hypertrophy program, and I don't think they claim it one, but if you are able to do all the WOD's then you are going to have to be muscular. Doing 21 pullups with a 45lb plate takes some muscle.

I dont think its ideal for everyones goals, but I can see how it would do a great job making an average person much fitter. I guess that could be said about almost any decent program though.

Not sure where I'm going with this but the crossfit ideas intrigue me and I am also considering drinking the kool-aid.

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

i will be at a crossfit certification this weekend and will write some sort of objective trip report on sunday night or monday.

if you have any question you want answered from glassman or what not ask them here and i will try and relay them just like they are my own.

i have enjoyed crossfit because it has helped me be very very consistent with my workouts and i have worked on a lot of weaknesses. my guess is that after this weekend i will either be a member of the "cult" or sort of see through it and do more of my own thing.

fire away with the ?'s later. J.

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

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if you have any question you want answered from glassman or what not ask them here and i will try and relay them just like they are my own.

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Ask for a quart of Nicole's bathwater. Waitasec, you can ask that like it's your own because it is your own!

Just kidding (-- we're gonna need at least a gallon.)

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

I wish there was a crossfit gym where I live. I wouldnt want to do alot of this stuff where I workout now.

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

J,

I looked into Crossfit after seeing you mention it a couple of times.

Do you do it by yourself from the website or are you part of a group?

It looks pretty interesting and, more importantly, motivating and full of variety. That's pretty important for me. Weights and running have been my standard for years and I definitely mix things up, but I still go through phases as I get bored.

I'm thinking of doing some classes ( http://www.sanfranciscocrossfit.com/ ). I can only do about 10 pullups right now, though. Would it make more sense for me to get in a little better shape before attempting CrossFit?

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

CF is unbelievably stupid outside of being used as a general fitness program. And the founder is a (fat) chronic liar which, while funny, doesn't do much for their credibility.

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

El D

Most people aren't in 100% CF shape, it's an incredibly hard cross training program, like others have said though, it's probably the best thing out there for what it advertises. I couldn't even get through the warm up when i first started this fitness kick. It'd probably take you a year to get enough strength to fully do all the CF workouts, they cut them down though so that it's manageable for people that are just starting. I'd definitely start with classes too unless you really know your way around a gym. Take a few classes, see if it's your thing, if it is I'd continue taking a decent number of classes until you feel comfortable/motivated enough to do it on your own on an everyday basis.

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

AZK,

I watched one of the timed workout videos and I think it would be near impossible for me to get motivated enough to really give 100% unless I had other people I was doing it with. The one I watched was 400m run, 30x box jump, 30x "wallball" repeated 5x.

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

CT,

Could you give a brief summary of your main issues with it? I took a glance around the website and it mainly looked like a workout program to me with a lot of different types of exercises and workouts.

From reading the main stuff, seems like they are just pushing compound exercises over isolation exercises and repeated high-intensity shorter sessions over lower-intensity long sessions, and make some not very controversial healthier diet suggestions.

What are the parts you don't like?

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

D,

You should absolutely take classes. Whether or not you want to go all outdoing crossfit stuff, a crossfit certified trainer is WAY more likely to give good instruction on general weight lifting form then some guy at the local chain gym.

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

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CT,

Could you give a brief summary of your main issues with it? I took a glance around the website and it mainly looked like a workout program to me with a lot of different types of exercises and workouts.

From reading the main stuff, seems like they are just pushing compound exercises over isolation exercises and repeated high-intensity shorter sessions over lower-intensity long sessions, and make some not very controversial healthier diet suggestions.

What are the parts you don't like?

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Mostly hyperbole. Its not all things to all people. Its an excellent program to get you in shape as a general athlete. It's not going to out perform a well-created hypertrophy program. You can be very elite at crossfit workouts and still look like trash. Which isn't what 99% of people lift for.

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

I guess I dont understand what crossfit is?

I am looking at the list of exercises on the website. It has Olympic lifts and powerlifting in addition to all the "crossfit" exercises. Seems like that would be great for hypertrophy.

What does a week of exercises for a elite crossfitter look like?

I see tons of individual stuff but I am really curious about a whole week.

I would like to try some of it out if it includes all the powerlifting and olympic lifting stuff.

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

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I guess I dont understand what crossfit is?

I am looking at the list of exercises on the website. It has Olympic lifts and powerlifting in addition to all the "crossfit" exercises. Seems like that would be great for hypertrophy.

What does a week of exercises for a elite crossfitter look like?

I see tons of individual stuff but I am really curious about a whole week.

I would like to try some of it out if it includes all the powerlifting and olympic lifting stuff.

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Are you honestly going to say that by following crossfit or a crossfit based routine that you would see better physique results than if you opened up your range to all sorts of different programs and other options?

I think we can eliminate the WOD with no real effort.

There is no doubt that you would grow on it. Much like many posters here post something about their DB only program or whatever their doing and then defend it saying "Well it works for me" while at the same time asking for advice. Large compound lifts work great and there are some big dudes who do crossfit, but that is pretty much immaterial. I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who competes even on a lower level who takes crossfit seriously as an optimal solution.

FWIW if I wanted to get back into athletics (which I may after I gain some size). I'll likely be doing a program that is either crossfit or almost the exact same. Lots of GPP, core work, and powerlifting and Olympic lifts. And some running [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

please expand

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CF is unbelievably stupid outside of being used as a general fitness program. And the founder is a (fat) chronic liar which, while funny, doesn't do much for their credibility.

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Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

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It has Olympic lifts and powerlifting in addition to all the "crossfit" exercises. Seems like that would be great for hypertrophy.

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Are you honestly going to say that by following crossfit or a crossfit based routine that you would see better physique results than if you opened up your range to all sorts of different programs and other options?

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Classic exchange here.

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

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You can be very elite at crossfit workouts and still look like trash.

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You have someone in mind?

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

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You can be very elite at crossfit workouts and still look like trash.

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You have someone in mind?

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I think the youtube/google videos are enough. I don't think that anyone really is happy at ~5'8 160 unless they have the bone structure of a 12 year old girl. In which case lightweight BB domination is a solid career path.

Your first quote selection is lollerskates in intellectual dishonesty.

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

"Are you honestly going to say that by following crossfit or a crossfit based routine that you would see better physique results than if you opened up your range to all sorts of different programs and other options?"

I dont know what a crossfit program is? That was the first line of my post.

I dont know what a elite crossfit guy does for a whole week.

Example for 5X5 I know what I am going to do every day. The workout is right there for me to look at.

I want to see something like that for crossfit if it exist.

I dont know anything about crossfit other than alot of individual exercises and drills on their website.

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

Root,

There is a wide range. WOD is a good start for what most do. The whole metcon aspect which has a similar effect to tabata isn't really needed to grow. Sure its cool and means you won't get winded walking from the fridge to the TV. But you likely won't be as huge as you could.

There probably is nothing better for a recreational athlete or even a professional one in some cases. But to try to push crossfit onto pure physique athletes or competitive OLers or PLers or other more specialized types is insanity.

Shemp would be a better person to ask for a full range of what would be "crossfit" and what wouldn't. For example Starting Strength IMO is decidedly not crossfit, despite the author.

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

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You can be very elite at crossfit workouts and still look like trash.

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You have someone in mind?

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I think the youtube/google videos are enough.

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Provide a link to the elite crossfitter you think looks like trash. You know, defend your claim.

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

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Your first quote selection is lollerskates in intellectual dishonesty.

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So now I'm a dishonest. Below I've attached the entire post you've responded to. Please tell me which part of his post I unfairly deleted.

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[ QUOTE ]
I guess I dont understand what crossfit is?

I am looking at the list of exercises on the website. It has Olympic lifts and powerlifting in addition to all the "crossfit" exercises. Seems like that would be great for hypertrophy.

What does a week of exercises for a elite crossfitter look like?

I see tons of individual stuff but I am really curious about a whole week.

I would like to try some of it out if it includes all the powerlifting and olympic lifting stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you honestly going to say that by following crossfit or a crossfit based routine that you would see better physique results than if you opened up your range to all sorts of different programs and other options?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YARXjYqC8mU

This guy strikes me as rather meh for what I've been told is a v v impressive time.

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

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I am looking at the list of exercises on the website. It has Olympic lifts and powerlifting in addition to all the "crossfit" exercises. Seems like that would be great for hypertrophy.

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Hypertrophy is a moot topic. A typical crossfitter wants nothing to do with it. He wants his bodyweight constant so he can do all the crazy bodyweight gymnastic stuff that crossfitters do. Its a little easier that way.

Just because you do powerlifting and olympic lifts doesn't mean you'll get bigger. You have to design a program that will allow for that. A beginner starting out with a new exercise or program may fill out, but if the program is purposely designed not to promote mass, it probably won't when you're at an intermediate or advanced level.

Re: Crossfit Discussion
 

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Your first quote selection is lollerskates in intellectual dishonesty.

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So now I'm a dishonest. Below I've attached the entire post you've responded to. Please tell me which part of his post I unfairly deleted.

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[ QUOTE ]
I guess I dont understand what crossfit is?

I am looking at the list of exercises on the website. It has Olympic lifts and powerlifting in addition to all the "crossfit" exercises. Seems like that would be great for hypertrophy.

What does a week of exercises for a elite crossfitter look like?

I see tons of individual stuff but I am really curious about a whole week.

I would like to try some of it out if it includes all the powerlifting and olympic lifting stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you honestly going to say that by following crossfit or a crossfit based routine that you would see better physique results than if you opened up your range to all sorts of different programs and other options?

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I'd say all of it that you spent time deleting.