Sniper - reborn?
 

There has been a significant amount of discussion going on over the last week, into determining what is an appropriate level of participation for me going forward. Several proposals were bantered around between various Mods/Admins before these things were brought to me. Mat made contact with me on Thursday, and I started communicating with Ryan directly again on Friday. I was busy with preplanned activities with my kids over the weekend, or I would have posted these things over the weekend.

There has been a tremendous amount of pressure put on me at this point, to simply start posting in the Mod forum again. ElD even contacted me last night, which was both unexpected and appreciated.

I hope that we can all find a way to move forward from this, and apologize for my not being able to fully and actively participate in the discussions two weekends ago.

That said, I am interested in broad mod opinion on how to best proceed from here. I will put up one of the proposals for discussion in my next post, and follow up with some of the thoughts I have conveyed to others over the last few days as soon as I can edit them for appropriateness to post here. It should also be known that I have asked Ryan to reconsider his decision and full reinstate me as Mod of my 3 forums, so I can demonstrate that I have heard what you guys have been saying and intend to modify my behaviour in the Mod forum based on your comments.

So, here's where I am at:
1. I am fighting for a full reinstatement
2. Alternatively, I am willing to find a middle ground solution that is acceptable to the Mods/Admins
3. I have shared and will continue to share thoughts on mod additions
4. I am willing to discuss the issues raised 2 weekends ago, if thats what you want
5. I am hopeful that you guys will be willing to give me another chance, and that my willingness to listen to other Mods & stay out of Modwars, added to my positive contributions in other areas, will lead to an agreement that full reinstatement is the right way to go.

Can we all move forward as a team with a reborn Sniper, who has learned much from this experience, and that continues to positively contribute, but is less irritating?

More post to follow...

Re: Sniper - reborn?
 

Sniper,

I don't in anyway mean this to be rude or hostile by my opinion is that you should be returned to regular poster status, stop posting in the mod forum and never be a mod again.

One of the middle ground proposals
 

1. In lengthy discussions with many people over the past few days, (and after a lot of soul-searching), it has been proposed that I be allowed to keep my limited Moderator status with the following responsibilities:

a) I will continue my active role in the UBB7 upgrade. In this role I will continue as temporary Admin on the test server. I have done a lot of work there, and there is no reason for that to stop.

b) I will continue to work with Chuck to provide any assistance required to ensure that the archive servers and the archiving process is working properly. I am told that my catch on the 800,000 missing archive posts and my subsequent work with Chuck to resolve this problem was appreciated. Chuck may ask for my assistance as he deems appropriate.

c) I will assist TwoPlusTwo by continuing to provide relevant statistical facts in conversations in the Mod forum. Since my self-imposed exile, I have not responded in the Mod forum. I believe this shows that I will be able to restrain myself from expressing my opinions in the Mod forum, and that I can disengage from any future "ModWars". I will be able to provide factual stats and commentary without expressing unwanted opinions in the Mod forum.

2. I will continue with informal information support work with Pokeraddict in A/R, Berge in Legislation, Mike and Jim in ATF/Zoo, and Carter in TLDR. My participation there with those Mods, based on their comments, is appreciated. This will include my continuing to answer user questions and provide stats in ATF, my continued support of my high traffic Site Tracking & Neteller threads in Legislation, etc. The respective Mods can work out the details with me.

3. I will be undertitled "Forum Statsman" and I will be given a color change tbd.

4. I also have been give the opportunity to respond to the latest criticisms about past matters, if you guys still want to hear from me in this respect.

Excerpt from my PM to Mat on Thursday
 

On Thursday, Mat asked me some questions, and essentially asked me to get angry and stream my thoughts to him. This is an excerpt of some of the things that I said (also, in one paragraph names removed to protect the innocent).

Streaming...

Mat, I'm not "Angry" at you... you're the boss... you have to make the tough decisions.... and I support your decisions whatever they are. All I have ever tried to do was help in ways that I thought were helpful. And, I will continue to help in whatever ways I can. I sent off another email to Chuck on finishing off the last bits of the archive issue today. I am disappointed that we couldn't stick to what we agreed... to me, Exile = Punishment that fits the crime. Removed from Mod of 3 Forums I've worked hard to build up, for reasons not related to my modding of those forums = punishment does not fit the crime.

If I were you, the second [censored] posted up his list, I would have reversed everything and put an end to ModWars for good. But I am not you! Modwars has been going on for a long time, and there has been no attempt to stop it. There are 3 main factions in the Mod forum... the Blackhats, the CSP, and the Silent Majority who just want to quietly do their modding and don't even read the mod forum that much. In the CSP, DB and I are the most vocal and therefore we take the most heat. Is not having that balance of opinions good... that is for you to decide. By accepting/choosing exile, I accepted your decision on that. And I believe DB has also come to the same decision with changing his name and trying to get a fresh start that way.

PA and morgant both respect my opinions on matters related to RB providers, because I am actively engaged in that forum and in talking to them, tracking down rogues and gimmick accounts, and keeping tabs on what these guys are doing outside A/R. At one point, morgant was talking about adding me as a Player Representative Mod to A/R when he was sponsoring it, just to help alleviate the issue of any bias on his part. Tracking down douchebags on 2+2 is one of the things I do well (you might want to reread PA's lengthy post when he got back from live play this weekend. Part of the delay here was in not being able to talk to him because he simply wasn't around... I was not taking any action on Degen until I talked to him, it's his realm and I respect him too much to do that)

As to Degen, he is a scumbag, douchebag, total idiot... whatever label you want to use, and I have been telling him that for a long time. Despite appearances that I have simply been defending him. What I have been trying to do is rehabilitate him, so that he wouldn't do stupid [censored] to get him rogued or piss off other mods in other forums he participates in. He is not the only poster from my forums that causes trouble elsewhere, and he is not the only poster I've tried to help. [Apparently my posters should be helped rather than banned philosophy is wrong... ] Unfortunately, Degen has not listened to my advice. One of my last posts in Mod was saying that Falang = Degen, this has been clear for a long time.

I think I covered your main question in my response in Mod to Nation, but just to reinforce... He talks to a whole group of moderators on a regular basis. He may even be providing some of them their Rakeback. He knew some of the stuff that was going on in the Mod forum, even before I did. I have not provided him access to Mod, nor shared any information about what people have said about him. I have never met him, all I know about him personally is what I've read. He was simply a good poster in my forums that I have tried and failed repeatedly to get to change his ways.

If coming out of my earlier conversations with PA and morgant, they both strongly believed that he should be rogued and didn't warrant some attention to try and straighten him out, I never would have defended him for so long. It's not like I paid these guys off to not ban degen. In all the threads, you can see that it was always their decision, barring the initial unbanning without talking to anyone first (and the rules/situation around unbanning were very different a year ago...it was more frequently done... and in fact, I am not the only Mod to ever unban Degen w/o consultation)

XXX tells me not to post anything, XXX tells me you want me to post, I thought I was running everything by you and doing what you wanted, Ryan posted that he doesn't like the way I handled the situation... If I can't trust what you and XXX tell me, what am I supposed to do?

Somewhere along the line, it was forgotten that Mods do other things aside from read 2+2 all day... if there is any injustice in this, it is that when confronted with a situation where I was being told that I didn't give things enough thought last year, I end up getting clobbered for actually taking the time to do a thoughtful review, analysis, and soul searching NOW... that sucks!

Re: Excerpt from my PM to Mat on Thursday
 

sniper,

not trying to be mean or cruel here, but i think most mods are totally ready to never think about your modding again. all that other stuff you want to do is fine, have fun. maybe if you took the time to post half this much stuff back when we were actually discussing it people would be interested in reading it; as is, TL;DR

Excerpts from my PM to Ryan on Friday
 

These thoughts are a little more disjointed, as they were originally focused on responding to comments from Ryan, but I think they are worth sharing (among other things, quoted Ryan statements removed)...




My contributions weren't the issue, and were clearly dismissed by those with another agenda. I predicted the results of the Final poll in Mod. It cuts clearly across Blackhat vs CSP lines, with the silent majority (60-70 of the roughly 100 with mod access, not even voting no opinion).

If you followed the threads in Mod closely, you would know, that I have the support of ALL the primary Mods in forums where I actively post (and I work closely with those Mods). I do not have the support of those with another agenda, who neither actively participate in my forums, or the other forums I actively post in. I am not a child of OOT... The forums have gotten too large for anyone to know what is going on across ALL the forums... In my post count thread and other posts in ATF, I try to close that gap in knowledge.

I post on 2+2 when I have time, sometimes I have more time than others, sometimes I merely respond to PMs and put up some quick posts, other times I stream out a lot of traffic generating posts. A couple of week/ends ago, and even moreso this weekend, I didn't have much time and my time on 2+2 was minimized. I was hung, without having an appropriate amount of time to defend myself, against a rehashing of year old issues. And when I took the time to reread and give thoughtful consideration to the old stuff, I was attacked for that... odd.

I put up a thoughtful sincere apology, and that wasn't enough... of course it wasn't... that wasn't the real agenda here. I told Mat that Friday that I would get a thoughtful post up on Sunday... he agreed... I did what was requested, after taking the time to Diagnose the problem and resolve to find the proper cure.

Mat came up with the proper cure... 15% of my posts are in the Mod forum... I got involved in too many things there. Exile (reading but not posting), was a way to reduce my involvement in areas where I disagreed with my critics. It was and still remains the most thoughtful and appropriate solution. Removing me from my forums, goes far beyond an appropriate solution... the "cure" does not fit the "diagnosis".



I was Frist'd with a rider to the Degen ban...

what started all this a couple of weeks ago? The difference in reaction to Did's post to Degen in ElD vs Mat's reaction to censored's post in ATF. This leading to Degen's banning and my de-greening and losing my forums, at the same time as I was (among other positive contributions) saving 800,000 posts from being lost... all I can say is, unbelievable.

I'm not the only one that thought Degen was a quality poster... interestingly, Degen appears on ElDiablo's list of experienced approved quality posters in ElD Forum. Nor was I the only mod to unban Degen last year.



I responded in the best way that I could, given the time constraints I was operating under. Berge best summarized the unreasonableness of the "respond now" crowd in this post.

My exact Self Exile post was reviewed and approved by Mat. Seems a little unfair to judge me on approved actions. He requested time to see if that worked, and imo, should have been given the time to see if it did.

The more serious question here may be, why aren't Mat's decisions being followed by Mods with longer Rap Sheets than mine. Mods who continually have negative threads about them in ATF. Who, as felicia pointed out, and I quoted in my apology post, engage in ModWars to the same extent if not greater than my participation, and in a nastier way. I am punished for adopting positions that have widespread support, but just from quieter mods and posters, who choose not to vocally get involved, for fear of being attacked in the way I have been.

If I had more time to devote to 2+2 while all this was going on, I certainly would have handled this a different way.



I still want to help in the ways I have, as well as initiating other projects I have been working on. My focus will also be working better with the other Mods, and being more focused on my productive dealings with the other active Mods, as well as with you.

I don't know what involvement you had in drafting "the proposal", but I was brought in late in that game. It is a good start that details some of how I will continue to help. But, as outlines in section 1 above, it is part of a three pronged approach I have taken to all of this. Which includes my continuing to fight for full reinstatement.

If we can find some common ground in all of this, then I would like to work with you on how best to move forward, to minimize the drama in the Mod forum.



to wrap this up...

I respectfully request that you give thorough thoughful consideration to all the things I've done here, regreen me and add me back to my 3 forums, and let's work together on the real issue of how I communicate with the few Mods that have an issue with my interactions in the Mod forum. If this was a situation, where another Mod took this action against me, I strongly believe that you would have overturned it, consistent with your past actions.

I recognize that my interactions with you in the past haven't been the best... I'm working on that... let's move forward together.

The past is the past (though I'm certainly willing to discuss it), it's time we got back to focusing on the Future!

Mat asked me (and reinforced it) when this started, to essentially start ForumWars... I declined as thinking taking this out of the Mod Forum wasn't the way to go, and I didn't really have the time to do it properly. Maybe an appeal to the posters is the way to go here, as I have received an increadible amount of support from them; maybe you'll give all of this due consideration and we can all get back to woking on improving the forums...

I await your thoughts on how to proceed in Mod!

Response to NT
 

[ QUOTE ]
sniper,

not trying to be mean or cruel here, but i think most mods are totally ready to never think about your modding again. all that other stuff you want to do is fine, have fun. maybe if you took the time to post half this much stuff back when we were actually discussing it people would be interested in reading it; as is, TL;DR

[/ QUOTE ]

NT, I fully understand where you are coming from in saying this. I even raised it as an issue, that some of you wouldn't want to hear from me.

However, not only did the Admins request (almost demand) that I post, but there is a sense that some of the Mods do want me to post.

I am sorry that I wasn't able to give this more time a couple of weeks ago. I did the best that I could given my time constraints.

Re: Excerpt from my PM to Mat on Thursday
 

sniper,

it seems like when you told El Diablo that you would not be demoded ragardless of what was posted here you had plenty of time to gather your thoughts and its only now after you were demoded that these new insights have come to you

Response to [censored]
 

[ QUOTE ]
sniper,

it seems like when you told El Diablo that you would not be demoded ragardless of what was posted here you had plenty of time to gather your thoughts and its only now after you were demoded that these new insights have come to you

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored]

The frequently quoted statement I made to ElD is taken out of context. It was merely an attempt to frame my AIM conversation with him, in a way that was above the then current controversy. If my comments now, display growth from my comments then, maybe that's a good sign...

Since, ElD seemed to indicate he wouldn't have a probem with my posting that conversation, I am willing to do so. I will note that the conversation he initiated with me last night was far more productive than the conversation I had with him 2 Friday's ago.

Re: Excerpt from my PM to Mat on Thursday
 

sniper,

expect a much longer response from me when I have more time.

mat,

please don't do anything until i have written my longer response.

back to sniper,

however, my quick response is this: why do you want to be here, when it is clear that a large percentage of mods want you gone and another large percentage don't even care enough to take a position?

Re: Excerpt from my PM to Mat on Thursday
 

oh, one other thing that i want to get off my chest now.

[ QUOTE ]
that I have the support of ALL the primary Mods in forums where I actively post (and I work closely with those Mods).

[/ QUOTE ]

no one is suggesting that you leave 2+2 entirely. we are saying you are a bad mod, not a bad poster. has anyone even mentioned banning your account, or simply demodding it?

Re: Excerpt from my PM to Mat on Thursday
 

I would also ask that no decision be made until I have an opportunity to make a point by point response. I will be busy the next two days but I would appreciate it if this isn't rushed. thank you mat & ryan

ElD AIM conversation - Friday March 2nd
 

Friday March 2, 4:47pm

GSWSnipershot: You around Diablo?

ulydiablo: I'm away right now.
ulydiablo: yes

GSWSnipershot: I think its time we figure out where we have common ground
GSWSnipershot: The best solution from Mat's perspective, is if there some way that the two of us can work out our differences

ulydiablo: huh?
ulydiablo: dude i am not involved
ulydiablo: i dont give a [censored] about any of this

GSWSnipershot: Diablo... the witch hunt is not going anywhere
GSWSnipershot: thats not what Im talking about

ulydiablo: witch hunt wtf are you talking about?
ulydiablo: i have zero involveement
ulydiablo: in anything db is implying

GSWSnipershot: Back up
GSWSnipershot: Try this...
GSWSnipershot: No matter what is said in that thread.. I will not be demoded...
GSWSnipershot: I do not want to talk to you about that thread

ulydiablo: ok fine

GSWSnipershot: I want to talk to you about the bigger picture

ulydiablo: i am not involved in the bigger picture
ulydiablo: i have nothing to do with it

GSWSnipershot: Yes you do

ulydiablo: dude
ulydiablo: i think you are a complete idiot

GSWSnipershot: The bigger picture of wanting to improve 2+2

ulydiablo: and every idea you have re: 2+2
ulydiablo: no
ulydiablo: is stupid
ulydiablo: and i dont give a [censored]
ulydiablo: about improving 2+2
ulydiablo: anymore

GSWSnipershot: Why?

ulydiablo: waste of time
ulydiablo: i have written my position
ulydiablo: quite clearly in the thread
ulydiablo: i think there are a bunch of morons making decisions
ulydiablo: but that is fine
ulydiablo: i wil just sit back
ulydiablo: and wish you guys the best!

GSWSnipershot: and what if together we had enough influence to actually accomplish something?

ulydiablo: dude
ulydiablo: i think you completely idiotic, why the [censored] would i ever want to have anything to do with you?

GSWSnipershot: ok I'm an idiot

ulydiablo: i dont understand your point here
ulydiablo: i think you are really dumb
ulydiablo: and have horrible ideas
ulydiablo: mat has decided that he is fine with that
ulydiablo: so, that's great
ulydiablo: good luck to you!
ulydiablo: if it were my business, i would get rid of you and db asap and focus on smart mods, but it isn't so whatever, i continue to be a happy and satisfied user of the site

GSWSnipershot: And if I were to say to you that if we were to go out to have drinks (like that would ever happen), that you might have a different opinion?
GSWSnipershot: Are you that closed minded?
GSWSnipershot: I really don' t think you are

ulydiablo: dude, maybe you are a nice guy. i dont care. but you are obv not very smart, that is cery clear. closed minded? of course not. i am very open minded and smart and it is easy for me to tell who is stupid.

GSWSnipershot: What do you think I'm doing thats stupid?
GSWSnipershot: There are zero complinats from my forums

ulydiablo: your forums are an embarrassment, the finance forum should be a thriving success at 2+2
ulydiablo: the lounge, what a [censored] joke
ulydiablo: you have failed at every attempt to build a strong community
ulydiablo: this is a direct result
ulydiablo: of you being pretty stupid

GSWSnipershot: In what way?

ulydiablo: dude, here is the thing

GSWSnipershot: I still do not get what you think I'm doing thats hurting the finance forum?

ulydiablo: ok look man
ulydiablo: I DONT CARE

GSWSnipershot: maybe Im just to stupid to understand you

ulydiablo: good for you, your forums are great
ulydiablo: yes, that is actually, pretty much true
ulydiablo: that is why i can have a great convo w/ someone like david sklansky
ulydiablo: because he is v smart
ulydiablo: yet v hard to communicate with somone at your level
ulydiablo: but whatev, man, i dont care
ulydiablo: carry on, good job, etc

GSWSnipershot: I do not ElD, if Mat and Mason and Chuck appreciate what I do for them, seems like you are just being closed minded to seeing the value I bring to the table
GSWSnipershot: Maybe all I need is your help to not be stupid

ulydiablo: great, good for them
ulydiablo: have a great weekend!

GSWSnipershot: Think about it ElD

ulydiablo: huh?

GSWSnipershot: Just think about it

ulydiablo: uh, why are you still talking to me?

Re: ElD AIM conversation - Friday March 2nd
 

hahahahahahahahhahahah

that conversation is supposed to HELP your case?

Re: ElD AIM conversation - Friday March 2nd
 

[ QUOTE ]
hahahahahahahahhahahah

that conversation is supposed to HELP your case?

[/ QUOTE ]

durron,

think about it

Re: ElD AIM conversation - Friday March 2nd
 

yeah that about sums it up

Re: ElD AIM conversation - Friday March 2nd
 

[ QUOTE ]
hahahahahahahahhahahah

that conversation is supposed to HELP your case?

[/ QUOTE ]

Durron, I share it not to hurt or help, but in the interest of providing information that was requested.

As I said, the conversation ElD initiated with me last night was much different.

Re: ElD AIM conversation - Friday March 2nd
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hahahahahahahahhahahah

that conversation is supposed to HELP your case?

[/ QUOTE ]

Durron, I share it not to hurt or help, but in the interest of providing information that was requested.

As I said, the conversation ElD initiated with me last night was much different.

[/ QUOTE ]

was it full of stuff like:

[ QUOTE ]
ulydiablo: good for you, your forums are great

[/ QUOTE ]

also,

please answer my question about why you want to be here

Re: ElD AIM conversation - Friday March 2nd
 

Diablo,

have the opinions you expressed about sniper fundamentally changed?

Re: ElD AIM conversation - Friday March 2nd
 

Sniper,

If you cannot express why you, personally, want to be a moderator here, you definitely should not be one. You have 5 very long posts in this thread and several smaller ones and never once do you mention YOUR PERSONAL MOTIVATIONS.

Re: ElD AIM conversation - Friday March 2nd
 

I'm not even bothering to read what Sniper has posted. His pervious actions are enough to suggest that he has no business being a mod. I'm surprised this conversation is still happening.

Re: ElD AIM conversation - Friday March 2nd
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm growing weary. Sniper, you need to take a [censored] vacation.

I mean a real vacation away from the forums altogether. This is not reality. This is the [censored] locker at the end of Men in Black 2.

[/ QUOTE ]

You spent a week attention whoring over the fact that you're no longer green and then come back with this? Seriously you need to give this crap a rest and just go back to enjoying being a regular poster.

Honestly the best thing you could do right now would be to post in here something along the lines of "You guys are right, I do need a break, so I'm gonna stop worrying about this stuff and go back to enjoying posting on 2+2"

Re: ElD AIM conversation - Friday March 2nd
 

This just seems sad, like an ex-gf trying to get back together even though you both know it isn't going to work.

I think Sniper should respect the decisions made by the mod team and by Mat and Ryan and take a break.

It's way way way too soon imo to even think about this kind of stuff. Sniper has had like a week, not even.

Re: ElD AIM conversation - Friday March 2nd
 

[ QUOTE ]

This just seems sad, like an ex-gf trying to get back together even though you both know it isn't going to work.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow...

i couldn't quite put my finger on it but YES! you nailed it exactly.

Re: ElD AIM conversation - Friday March 2nd
 

a fresh perspective:

I am a new mod - so I have missed out on all of the "Modwars" back story - tbh I can't be arsed to go read up on it.

I accepted modship cos I think I can improve the forum I mod - I don't have enough information on 2p2 mods yet to form a valid opinion on who's posts I should listen to and which mods I can safely ignore - right now all that concerns me as far as modding goes is trying to up the signal quality in uNL and trim out some of the noise.

From looking at the Sniper thing with a fresh face - seriously Sniper go take a break.

Get away from 2p2 completely for a while - come back in a week or three and talk things through then.

The general consensus of opinion amongst mods - seems to me to be "Sniper is an awful mod"

I don't know enough yet about modding to decide whether or not that is the case - but when a large group of your peers says to you "you are bad at this" - would it not maybe be a good thing to listen??

This whole thread seems to me to be Class A flouncing. You are being a drama queen it appears to me for the sake of being a drama queen.

I don't know what you get out of modding - I don't know what motivates you to want to get reinstated.

If I were in your shoes I think I'd accept what has happened - take some time out and think about what I wanted out of my involvement with 2p2 in the future - and then work towards that goal again whilst remaining a standard poster for the forseeable future.

/.02c

Re: ElD AIM conversation - Friday March 2nd
 

please, ffs do we really need another 150 response thread about Sniper..there are already at least 3.

This is basically like when Mat told Sniper to ban degen and Sniper said "we have to talk on the phone about this" and dragged out what was a simple order for days. More unnecessary drama and just further proof that people aren't respecting what the Reds say as final when that is exactly what they should be doing.

Re: ElD AIM conversation - Friday March 2nd
 

[ QUOTE ]
please, ffs do we really need another 150 response thread about Sniper..there are already at least 3.

This is basically like when Mat told Sniper to ban degen and Sniper said "we have to talk on the phone about this" and dragged out what was a simple order for days. More unnecessary drama and just further proof that people aren't respecting what the Reds say as final when that is exactly what they should be doing.

[/ QUOTE ]

But this is the only drama we have at the moment. Starting a porn thread to take attention away from here might be the only solution.

FWIW, sniper, I suggest you review the case of young nick b. and apply it to your situation.

Re: ElD AIM conversation - Friday March 2nd
 

[ QUOTE ]

The frequently quoted statement I made to ElD is taken out of context. It was merely an attempt to frame my AIM conversation with him, in a way that was above the then current controversy. If my comments now, display growth from my comments then, maybe that's a good sign...

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

GSWSnipershot: You around Diablo?

ulydiablo: I'm away right now.
ulydiablo: yes

GSWSnipershot: I think its time we figure out where we have common ground
GSWSnipershot: The best solution from Mat's perspective, is if there some way that the two of us can work out our differences

ulydiablo: huh?
ulydiablo: dude i am not involved
ulydiablo: i dont give a [censored] about any of this

GSWSnipershot: Diablo... the witch hunt is not going anywhere
GSWSnipershot: thats not what Im talking about

ulydiablo: witch hunt wtf are you talking about?
ulydiablo: i have zero involveement
ulydiablo: in anything db is implying

GSWSnipershot: Back up
GSWSnipershot: Try this...
GSWSnipershot: No matter what is said in that thread.. I will not be demoded...
GSWSnipershot: I do not want to talk to you about that thread

[/ QUOTE ]

So the context we were missing out on was el Diablo saying he wasn't interested in the mod forum thread? Given the context, it's actually WORSE than the quote out of context. At least before there was the vague possibility that el diablo had asked "so sniper, what do you think the chances are that you'll be demodded?"

You making the out of context argument makes it pretty clear that nothing has changed. The only difference is that now you are more desperate.

Re: ElD AIM conversation - Friday March 2nd
 

sniper,

The comment:

[ QUOTE ]
GSWSnipershot: No matter what is said in that thread.. I will not be demoded...

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't need the context TBH, and is just as bad as it was made out to be. This comment personally annoyed me and I'm sure a lot of the other silent majority mods. I dont post here a ton but I do read every thread in here, and usually my opinion is expressed better by someone that is smarter than me.

In this case, why would you want to stay in an environment where you are neither liked nor respected. If you truly want the forums you modded to succeed you will realize being re-greened in here if anything is actually counter-productive.

Would I be against re-modding you someday? No. I think that might even be a good idea sometime in the future. But right now, its a terrible idea. You should just accept the result and move on for a few.

Re: Sniper - stillborn.
 

[ QUOTE ]
That said, I am interested in broad mod opinion on how to best proceed from here. I will put up one of the proposals for discussion in my next post, and follow up with some of the thoughts I have conveyed to others over the last few days as soon as I can edit them for appropriateness to post here. It should also be known that I have asked Ryan to reconsider his decision and full reinstate me as Mod of my 3 forums, so I can demonstrate that I have heard what you guys have been saying and intend to modify my behavior in the Mod forum based on your comments.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have been in the no-opinion/abstain position because my concern was with the good of the forum, and for Chuck. I also wanted to give Sniper a chance to pleed his case, even though I expected him to hang himself with his own noose.

I was right. Sniper isn't reborn, he is stillborn. And therefore I change my position to de-mod. With a catch.

I would like to see the following:

1) Sniper be removed from the mod forums, and not permitted to moderate any forum in the future.

2) We havent seen Chuck weigh in on this issue. If Chuck wants Sniper to continue as temporary admin on the UB7 upgrade then thats fine as long as he promises not to vigilante-moderate. If Chuck has to give Sniper admin powers on the current forum to help implement the change then thats fine too. But Sniper should no longer have access to the mod forum for reading or posting, there is nothing for him here now. Once the UB7 upgrade is complete Sniper should of course have his temp admin status removed.

3) The topic of Sniper should be dropped ASAP so we can all get back to our real focus of supporting 2+2 and improving our poker games. Can you guys imagine what this has done to poor Mat last week? How this must have kept him preoccupied instead of working on things that really need his focus? Lets move on as quickly as possible. I want to be done with this.

Side note for Sniper: posting the El D conversation like that was really out of line IMHO, your goal of making El D also look bad backfired.

comments?

Re: One of the middle ground proposals
 

Sniper,

Your roll in the UBB7 upgrade does not require you to be a mod.

Your work on the archive servers does not require you to be a mod.

(As an aside here, I find it shameful that it has needed unpaid workers to do either of the above.)

To my knowledge, you haven't really provided any useful statistics in the mod forum in months. I have seen your stat posts in ATF, but I haven't seen statistics that are in any way interesting in here in a long, long time.

(As an aside, I find it shameful that admins/above apparently have no way of gathering these statistics pretty much on the fly.)

Your participation as a poster in several forums in no way requires you to be a mod.

(At this point I really don't know what's up with your formatting in the post with lists of responsibilities.)

Whatever dude, if you want an undertitle I will hook you up. The concept of a custom color is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

I don't even remember offhand what your "limited moderator" responsibilities/powers are. As long as they are effectively "I can read and post in the mod forum," and you keep on remaining self exiled from posting in this forum, I can't see how this can do any harm.

When I read your post I can't help but get the impression that you want to be re-modded because you feel you should be rewarded for your work for the forums. That just flat out isn't how it works. People are modded when there is moderation that needs to be done that isn't and when it is believed that making them a moderator will improve some part of the forum. As I said, it doesn't look like anything you (want to) do requires you to be a mod, so there is no value added to the forum by making you a mod.

We all appreciate the work you are doing in the backend, both of the archives and of the upgrade. I find it fairly disgusting that a webspace that I'm assuming generates money fairly hand-over-fist, and will make even more money post upgrade, can't afford to hire people who know what they are doing to start with. Especially when it appears that there is someone who is in fact paid to do the exact work you are being so good as to do for free. However, that work has nothing to do with being a moderator.

We all appreciate your stat posts, however misguided your statistical analysis is on a regular basis.

Anyway, Sniper, you were demodded what, like 9 days ago? How about if you want to "fight to be remodded" you at least just go the [censored] away and get off the mods' cases for a couple/few months? I can't understand how you could possibly think that coming back here so quickly (and noticably basically as soon as the active threads about you in this forum have stopped generating posts, and also as your "thanks sniper" threads have died down, and the degen threads have just died dow) would be a good idea. It's still incredibly fresh on everyone's minds why they don't want you to be a mod, and no one is going to believe that you actually have "rehabilitated" quite so quickly. I find it ironic that you're saying you will stay out of modwars or whatever and you do so in a post that comes off as "nyah nyah I know you guys don't want me around but I'm going to rub it in your faces that I'm still around and you haven't gotten rid of me at all, oh, and a week after I was kicked out I want back in." I mean come on.

(Oh, and a whole parenthetical paragraph just for you: If you want to make a post that includes how awesome you are at tracking down the douchebags on 2p2, you probably should try to distance that sentence from sentences about trying to rehab Degen, or defend degen. If the message is "I am good at tracking down douches and then defending their rights to troll/post/etc until the bitter end," you do a good job of that.)

So,

Why do you want to be a mod?

Why do you think the things that you listed as your reasons for bein a mod are reasons for being a mod?

How can you possibly think that coming back here 9 days or so after demodding was a good idea?

Why are you incapable of just going a couple months and being a normal poster?

citanul

Response to Durron
 

[ QUOTE ]
why do you want to be here, when it is clear that a large percentage of mods want you gone and another large percentage don't even care enough to take a position?

[/ QUOTE ]

First, only 12 of roughly 100 with access to this forum, in the final poll wanted me demodded... and I felt I was barely able to defend myself because of time constraints.

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/3748/2p2vote1at9.jpg


[ QUOTE ]
no one is suggesting that you leave 2+2 entirely. we are saying you are a bad mod, not a bad poster. has anyone even mentioned banning your account, or simply demodding it?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
If you cannot express why you, personally, want to be a moderator here, you definitely should not be one. You have 5 very long posts in this thread and several smaller ones and never once do you mention YOUR PERSONAL MOTIVATIONS.

[/ QUOTE ]

The primary reason is because I believe that I am better able to enhance the forums that I mod, as a moderator, than as a regular poster... and because key posters in the forums that I mod'd have asked me to fight.

My personal motivations include a strong belief in giving back for what I have received and a pay it forward attitude, for what I have received in poker and other knowledge from these forums. I have a genuine interest in helping this community grow.

I post here now, because several Mods & Admins have asked me to try and work with the Mod team to find the best solution. I think this is an important point, that some may not be focused on.

I have kept my forums quiet and trouble free. I have the respect of the posters. I work closely with the Mods of the forums that I actively participate in, and they have supported me thru this. I do not believe the actual modding of my forums was in question.

I was demodded, not for bad modding, but for poor interaction with a small group of other Mods in the Mod forum, coupled with poor communication a couple of weeks ago in handling this whole thing. I have been asked to try and change that. That is what I intend to do.

The reason why I agreed that Exile was the best solution, was because it allowed me to continue with the positive things I have been doing as Mod since Dec 2005; and there are a lot of accomplishments, that while some of them can be accomplished as a poster, most all of them outside of the finance forum stem from my being a mod with a cross 2+2 interest. While removing the major issue of poor interaction with mods of forums I don't actvely participate in.

It is time that I narrowed my focus to helping those forums where my help is desired and in helping behind the scenes with the forum software and other potential enhancements, where I have value added skills.

I am done with Modwars, I am done with fighting over the little things regarding forums where the mods don't want my opinion. I am reviewing my support for trolls in some forums that are quality posters in others and expect that I will move from coddling trolls to smashing them. These are my commitments to change!

Re: Response to Durron
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why do you want to be here, when it is clear that a large percentage of mods want you gone and another large percentage don't even care enough to take a position?

[/ QUOTE ]

First, only 12 of roughly 100 with access to this forum, in the final poll wanted me demodded... and I felt I was barely able to defend myself because of time constraints.

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/3748/2p2vote1at9.jpg



[/ QUOTE ]

I think you have a reading comprehension problem. Seriously, you are distorting the facts.

Re: Response to Durron
 

[ QUOTE ]
First, only 12 of roughly 100

[/ QUOTE ]

my dishonest polling alarm just went batshit

Re: Response to Durron
 

[ QUOTE ]


I think you have a reading comprehension problem. Seriously, you are distorting the facts.

[/ QUOTE ]


TT, you have just figured out the key to every sniper post.

Re: Response to Durron
 

so much to say, so little time, but i have to say this:

sniper:

[ QUOTE ]
I have a genuine interest in helping this community grow.

[/ QUOTE ]

o rly???

sniper:

[ QUOTE ]
I have kept my forums quiet

[/ QUOTE ]

el diablo:

[ QUOTE ]

ulydiablo: your forums are an embarrassment, the finance forum should be a thriving success at 2+2
ulydiablo: the lounge, what a [censored] joke

[/ QUOTE ]

sniper:

[ QUOTE ]

I was demodded, not for bad modding, but for poor interaction with a small group of other Mods in the Mod forum, coupled with poor communication a couple of weeks ago in handling this whole thing. I have been asked to try and change that. That is what I intend to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

the fact that you think this is the reason means you have so far to go before it should even be considered you should come back

sniper:

[ QUOTE ]

My personal motivations include a strong belief in giving back for what I have received and a pay it forward attitude, for what I have received in poker and other knowledge from these forums.

[/ QUOTE ]

What, specifically, have you gained from these forums? Poker & other knowledge is very general, I was looking for a more specific answer.

Re: Response to Durron
 

I should also mention that of the 9 paragraphs of your reply, only one sentence actually addressed my question.

Response to MEbenhoe
 

[ QUOTE ]
You spent a week attention whoring over the fact that you're no longer green and then come back with this? Seriously you need to give this crap a rest and just go back to enjoying being a regular poster.


[/ QUOTE ]

Im not sure what attention whoring you think I was doing, maybe you can elaborate?

I started 1 thread in MMB (which you locked, then moved and then I reposted as you suggested), and 1 thread in Finance; both for the purpose of alerting the posters of those forums that I was not modding. Both threads resulted in far more PMs/AIMs than posts, which I expected; and I took no action to keep them on the top of the forum, which is something I have gotten quite good at, to drive traffic to important posts.

I think the other posts I have made in various threads (and there aren't many) have all focused on a positive outlook, provided info, or thanked posters for their support.

Re: Response to Durron
 

[ QUOTE ]

sniper:

[ QUOTE ]

I was demodded, not for bad modding, but for poor interaction with a small group of other Mods in the Mod forum, coupled with poor communication a couple of weeks ago in handling this whole thing. I have been asked to try and change that. That is what I intend to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

the fact that you think this is the reason means you have so far to go before it should even be considered you should come back

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate to be the realist, but there is more truth to Sniper's statement than you assume but the fact that he states it as such continues to show a lack of humility. That doesn't mean I think he should continue however, he is bad for moral. He should go, and IMHO I hope he goes on his own without being forced.

Re: Response to Durron
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why do you want to be here, when it is clear that a large percentage of mods want you gone and another large percentage don't even care enough to take a position?

[/ QUOTE ]

First, only 12 of roughly 100 with access to this forum, in the final poll wanted me demodded... and I felt I was barely able to defend myself because of time constraints.

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/3748/2p2vote1at9.jpg



[/ QUOTE ]

I think you have a reading comprehension problem. Seriously, you are distorting the facts.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
In favor of de-modding Sniper:(19)
[censored]
adanthar
ajmargarine
Citanul
daryn
Dids
The Dude
durron597
Gildwulf
iron81
JaredL
jurollo
MEbenhoe
nation
Nick B.
NT
RR
Yeti
ZBTHorton

In favor or Sniper remaining a mod:(3)
diebitter
Jim Kuhn
PokerAddict

No opinion/abstain:(15)
chesspain
El Diablo
EMcWilliams
Eurotrash
Felicia
Leader
miajag81
Mike Haven
MrWookie
Performify
Private Joker
SamIAm
samjjones
TT
wiggs73


[/ QUOTE ]