tough spot vs MTBlue
 

6 Players
LegoPoker Hand Converter

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
SB: $520.20 in chips
Hero (BB): $412.60 in chips
UTG: $458 in chips
UTG+1: $453.30 in chips
MP: $401.45 in chips
CO: $217.65 in chips

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($0, 6 players)
UTG: folds, UTG+1: calls $16, MP: calls $16, CO: folds, SB: folds

<font color="black">Flop:</font> K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($32, 6 players)
<font color="red">Hero: bets $36</font>, UTG+1: calls $36, MP: calls $36

<font color="black">Turn:</font> K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] ($140, 6 players)
<font color="red">Hero: bets $120</font>, UTG+1: calls $120, MP: folds

<font color="black">River:</font> K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]] ($380, 6 players)


For those that don't know villian he's 19/16, very solid tag, definitely capable of making a move



I've shown alot of strength betting into 2 people twice on this board. That being said do we think I'd have heard about it on the turn from a hand stronger than mine? We have alot of history which involves alot of bluffing, but not so much on boards as dangerous as these.

thoughts on river play? thoughts on any other streets?

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

nothing seems reasonable except a shove after your turn bet.

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

He can't show up here with air. He wont bet river with a worse hand than yours(maybe QJ). I say check.

Edit: I don't think his calling range is much wider than his betting range. If your history indicates that he could call you with one pair then bet for sure.

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

I would put him on KQ,KJ,QJ, AK or AA.
I was thinking CR but changed my mind.
You have what, like 250 left? Does he get away from AA or AK if you push? If he's good he probably should fold those hands to a push. But then again betting less looks pretty strong too, but he might not get away from any of those hands if you bet 140ish.
Think I'm gonna go with the 140 bet.

Laters.
Ps: If MP is loose/fishy I could see him slowplaying AT and maybe T9 fwiw but I'm gonna assume we are ahead on the river.

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

c/f

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

check-fold. If he called the turn with a worse hand than yours he's a muppet.

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

Don't shove for the love of god.

Check... If you want to go broke, check/call a shove... but he is never ever calling a shove with worse here.

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

Villain can't have something like QhJh, QhTh, JhTh, AhJh, AhQh, etc..?

If he's got hero beat, why is he check/calling on drawyish board, unless he's drawing or has the nuts already?

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

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Villain can't have something like QhJh, QhTh, JhTh, AhJh, AhQh, etc..?

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sure he could, what's your point?

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why is he check/calling

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he isn't

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

AT is the only hand he ever has here that's beating you.

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

c/f, QJ prob isnt betting this river

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

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nothing seems reasonable except a shove after your turn bet.

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Shove is easily the worst option.

check/fold. He's not betting often with hands that you beat.

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

you're ahead here the great majority, the only hard part about it is that he'll rarely bet worse if checked to, or call with worse if bet at.

So either make a really weak bet that he might raise or call with worse (obvi call a shove) or overshove yourself and try for a hero call.

Standard bet or check here won't cut it, so its time for something XTREME.

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

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he'll rarely bet worse if checked to, or call with worse if bet at.

...
So either make a really weak bet that he might raise or call with worse (obvi call a shove) or overshove yourself and try for a hero call.



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How did you get to that conclusion from that reasoning?

what you wrote first is exactly why you c/f.

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

Basically i'm thinking that:

a) we're almost always ahead, so what we do doesnt matter TOO much.
b) maybe using a non-standard line has more chance of sucessfully getting a bet out, and if not it'll keep him guessing
c) checking means he gets to see what we have and how we played it
d) if we ever want to 3-barrel in this spot or a similar one, we have to bet here now.

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

I completely disagree with D, think the conclusion of A is ridiculous i.e. shoving would be horrible here, and think C matters very little.

For what its worth I agree that we're almost always ahead here, I just don't think MTBlue ever gets out of line in this spot.

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

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AT is the only hand he ever has here that's beating you.

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no

with the donk behind him, he could be going for the overcall with a bunch of hands

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

What am I reading here? How can you seriously say shove is "easily the worst option" here? It is not even CLOSE to as bad as check/calling. Misread stacksize at first, personally I'd fire 100 here.

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

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make a really weak bet that he might raise or call with worse

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Looks like a pretty clear spot for this.

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

Stacks are too shallow for that right? 240 left in a 380 pot.

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

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Stacks are too shallow for that right? 240 left in a 380 pot.

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MDMA says he likes 100, I don't even mind something like 50.

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

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AT is the only hand he ever has here that's beating you.

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no

with the donk behind him, he could be going for the overcall with a bunch of hands

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On a drawy board when we are showing a ton of strength he is not going to slow play a set/kq often.

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

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Basically i'm thinking that:

a) we're almost always ahead, so what we do doesnt matter TOO much.
b) maybe using a non-standard line has more chance of sucessfully getting a bet out, and if not it'll keep him guessing
c) checking means he gets to see what we have and how we played it
d) if we ever want to 3-barrel in this spot or a similar one, we have to bet here now.

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I like all of this.

I think people are too worried about how tough this is to play well. Yeah, he's going to be able to make much better decisions than us on the river. But there's still no [censored] way he shows up with KQ or whatever here. We're ahead of every hand but the nuts, basically.

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

not too much beats you here and you lose value if you check here IMO.
I bet 60-120 here with the majority of his range being qj and pair + strt draw type hands. I don't think he's calling often here but much betr then c/c or c/f IMO.

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

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make a really weak bet that he might raise or call with worse

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Looks like a pretty clear spot for this.

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wasnt sure if i should blow the spot, but its hard not to suggest it

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

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not too much beats you here and you lose value if you check here IMO.
I bet 60-120 here with the majority of his range being qj and pair + strt draw type hands. I don't think he's calling often here but much betr then c/c or c/f IMO.

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Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

I'm not a fan of the blocking bet. You guys need to think it through a little better.

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

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I'm not a fan of the blocking bet. You guys need to think it through a little better.

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its not a blocking bet.

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

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I'm not a fan of the blocking bet. You guys need to think it through a little better.

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its not a blocking bet.

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fake blockign bet?

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

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I'm not a fan of the blocking bet. You guys need to think it through a little better.

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its not a blocking bet.

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fake blockign bet?

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its more of a bluff inducer, really. works a lot better against maniacs or LAGs, but everybody is capable of falling for it sometimes.

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

assuming villain is a competent tag, i can't see anything other than c-f here?

Surf

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

If we check on the river is there any chance he turns AhQh or ThQh into a bluff?

Re: tough spot vs MTBlue
 

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If we check on the river is there any chance he turns AhQh or ThQh into a bluff?

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probably not, especially since the strt draw/fdraw missed.