POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

I recently went to VEGAS. And one of my 'boys' from my old crew lives in vegas...He said 'come out here and i'll get half your action in everything'...and i was like 'kewl, we'll have a ball'..

So the first day, we went half/half on 3 tournaments...I got some tough beats in all of them...The next day...I'm on the phone with him and im like "i'm a go play the Ceasar's tournament, do you want half my action in it?' and he said "I dunno..it depends if i get there on time...maybe".....He doenst show up- so I buy myself in.
He then pops up 2 MINUTES after I won the whole thing...and after i collect my money, he's asking me for half....and im like 'wtf. you didnt even buy me in and we didnt agree to [censored]'
we fought in the hotel right there..

i'm not greedy- but am i right or wrong here? You cant wait until the end of a tournament and SEE the results, and THEN ask for the money.

The messed up part is that I offered him 500 DOLLARS...and a night out on town with me covering all the expenses, AND to 'stake him a couple times...AND half my action in the 540$ Venetian tournament..

That was MORE than enough...My friend said 'you shouldn't have even offered him a [censored] penny".

These are the 'rules of staking'. If you're not there during the time of the buy in...and you dont pay for it, you DONT get someone's action. PERIOD.

Even with that said, i STILL gave him the offer on the phone...I said 'do you want half my action'........If he simply said "Yes. I'm good for the buyin". then we would've had a verbal agreement, and he would've made THOUSANDS of dollars. But instead, he was a greedy prick with his hand out 5 minutes after i win a big tournament and celebrating my Vegas trip.

He thinks I 'screwed him over'...and i think he's simply dilusional and doesn't understand the way 'stakes and agreements' work.

Keep in mind, i HATE what Jamie Gold did, so i'd never stiff one of my boys. But this is ridicilous.

What's yall opinions?

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

Why even bother asking? The way you've framed this, there is no way you are wrong, and I don't believe you think anyone will seriously think you were wrong.

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

[ QUOTE ]
VEGAS
MINUTES
SEE
THEN
DOLLARS
AND
AND
MORE
DONT
PERIOD
STILL
THOUSANDS
HATE

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

If it really went down like this your friend is a [censored] idiot.

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

It does sound like you contradict yourself slightly here.

[ QUOTE ]
'come out here and i'll get half your action in everything'

And

He doenst show up- so I buy myself in.
He then pops up 2 MINUTES after I won the whole thing...and after i collect my money, he's asking me for half

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you on all of this, despite the slight contradictory comments in between. If you were going to get half your action from your friend, which you stated at the beginning, he should have provided for your funds upfront for the whole weekend. This exception seems to be a clause, as he changed his story at that point where you ask about the tournament.

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

How much did you win, out of curiousity?

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why even bother asking? The way you've framed this, there is no way you are wrong, and I don't believe you think anyone will seriously think you were wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]
QFT

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

It sounds like you're only telling half the story. Only one person would be dumb enough to say your "friend" was in the right. Even though I suspect that person voted "your friend" since it is BBV.

Good job BBV.

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

Question:

"...I'll get half your action in everything..."

When you agreed to this before going on the trip, was it to be truly everything or just what he was there for at the buy in? If it was really everything, he should have been good for half the buy in when finally he saw you, regardless of the result.

It also sounds as if he'd already been covering half of all your buy ins to that point, so there's little reason to think that he wouldn't have ponied up on time if he had been able to be there.

This is what he may have thought the agreement was from the beginning, and it would explain why he's upset.

Second question... why was he late? Was it truly unavoidable? I doubt that the buy in was enough to cause him to dodge you over it earlier in the day.

I'm not needling or trying to twist anything. The truth is that there are other areas of life that have taught me to be very careful about using the words "everything" and "anything" because many people DO take them *literally*.

I've been in a few situations where those words caused major problems and have seen many more where they caused problems for others. I can't help but wonder if this isn't simply another situation that should be added to that list.

Think about it... what kind of guy is he? If you're confident that he would have paid half even if you busted, you might want to chalk up his late arrival to dumb luck and stick to the idea of "everything".

I can't make that call because I don't know either of you. It's something you're going to have to suss out for yourself.

Vorlin

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

No bastard option so I couldnt vote. Please fix poll.

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

Wow you sure are a horrible friend OP.

I can't believe that you'd actually cheat your friend out of his money. And yes it is cheating him out of money, I hope you see why.

I think you should call your friend and apologize to him, this is like the scummiest thing I've ever seen. It's actually worse than what Jamie did, he wasn't even friends with the guy, but you are.

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

Don't be swayed by the fact that most people here have no reading comprehension and/or didn't want to take the time to read your [censored] post.

You are a homosexual of the cocksuckilius persuasion.

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wow you sure are a horrible friend OP.

I can't believe that you'd actually cheat your friend out of his money. And yes it is cheating him out of money, I hope you see why.

I think you should call your friend and apologize to him, this is like the scummiest thing I've ever seen. It's actually worse than what Jamie did, he wasn't even friends with the guy, but you are.

[/ QUOTE ]

seriously, wtf?

He wasn't there to pay for the buyin, nor did he made a verbal agreement to do so. He would only get half his action if he would be there on time. % minutes after the tournament is over is not quite on time, as I imagine the tourney must've been running for a good couple of hours.

OP, some greedy friends you have. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

p.s. I hope im not getting levelled by redjoker :P

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

yea, I don't see what is wrong here.

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

[ QUOTE ]
yea, I don't see what is wrong here.

[/ QUOTE ]

"I recently went to VEGAS. And one of my 'boys' from my old crew lives in vegas...He said 'come out here and i'll get half your action in everything'...and i was like 'kewl, we'll have a ball'.."

Anything OP says after this is meaningless rationalization.

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
yea, I don't see what is wrong here.

[/ QUOTE ]

"I recently went to VEGAS. And one of my 'boys' from my old crew lives in vegas...He said 'come out here and i'll get half your action in everything'...and i was like 'kewl, we'll have a ball'.."

Anything OP says after this is meaningless rationalization.

[/ QUOTE ]

whoops, missed that

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wow you sure are a horrible friend OP.

I can't believe that you'd actually cheat your friend out of his money. And yes it is cheating him out of money, I hope you see why.

I think you should call your friend and apologize to him, this is like the scummiest thing I've ever seen. It's actually worse than what Jamie did, he wasn't even friends with the guy, but you are.

[/ QUOTE ]

seriously, wtf?

He wasn't there to pay for the buyin, nor did he made a verbal agreement to do so. He would only get half his action if he would be there on time. % minutes after the tournament is over is not quite on time, as I imagine the tourney must've been running for a good couple of hours.

OP, some greedy friends you have. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

p.s. I hope im not getting levelled by redjoker :P

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL Donkaments.....DUCY?

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

If you would have not made the money would you have made him pay for half your buy-in?

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

You should Karate chop his face

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I recently went to VEGAS. And one of my 'boys' from my old crew lives in vegas...He said 'come out here and i'll get half your action in everything'...and i was like 'kewl, we'll have a ball'..

So the first day, we went half/half on 3 tournaments...I got some tough beats in all of them...The next day...I'm on the phone with him and im like "i'm a go play the Ceasar's tournament, do you want half my action in it?' and he said "I dunno..it depends if i get there on time...maybe".....He doenst show up- so I buy myself in.
He then pops up 2 MINUTES after I won the whole thing...and after i collect my money, he's asking me for half....and im like 'wtf. you didnt even buy me in and we didnt agree to [censored]'
we fought in the hotel right there..

i'm not greedy- but am i right or wrong here? You cant wait until the end of a tournament and SEE the results, and THEN ask for the money.

The messed up part is that I offered him 500 DOLLARS...and a night out on town with me covering all the expenses, AND to 'stake him a couple times...AND half my action in the 540$ Venetian tournament..

That was MORE than enough...My friend said 'you shouldn't have even offered him a [censored] penny".

These are the 'rules of staking'. If you're not there during the time of the buy in...and you dont pay for it, you DONT get someone's action. PERIOD.

Even with that said, i STILL gave him the offer on the phone...I said 'do you want half my action'........If he simply said "Yes. I'm good for the buyin". then we would've had a verbal agreement, and he would've made THOUSANDS of dollars. But instead, he was a greedy prick with his hand out 5 minutes after i win a big tournament and celebrating my Vegas trip.

He thinks I 'screwed him over'...and i think he's simply dilusional and doesn't understand the way 'stakes and agreements' work.

Keep in mind, i HATE what Jamie Gold did, so i'd never stiff one of my boys. But this is ridicilous.

What's yall opinions?

[/ QUOTE ]

dude ill stake you in the caesars tournament... Im good for the buy in i swear... let me know how you do and if you owe me monies..

Seriously?!? maybe be nice and refund the other two buy ins but nothing huge..

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...a11/dciken.jpg

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

[ QUOTE ]
"I dunno..it depends if i get there on time...maybe".....

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty clear cut to me. "it depends" means his commitment is now based on his arrival time. He is actually saying that, I will cover you if I make it to the tourny on time and if i don't i won't.

You have to ask yourself why is this bothering you enough to post over. If you think you conducted yourself properly then who cares what we think.

If you're unsure give him half the money minus his half of the buy-in. Maybe you'll sleep better.

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

my question is....If you had not cashed in the tourney, would he have come back after and repaid 1/2 your buyin?

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

this is a brag post... surprised not many people realized that

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

[ QUOTE ]
my question is....If you had not cashed in the tourney, would he have come back after and repaid 1/2 your buyin?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
"I dunno..it depends if i get there on time...maybe".....

[/ QUOTE ]

I highly doubt he would have paid half if you busted by the time he got there.

Sure, he said he would get half your action for the trip, but this cancels that out. He didnt get there in time. You paid your own buy in. You don't owe him anything. if he had just said "yeah, I'll get you when i show up" then you would owe. "Maybe" doesnt cut it.

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

I missed the part of:

"I'm on the phone with him and im like "i'm a go play the Ceasar's tournament, do you want half my action in it?' and he said "I dunno..it depends if i get there on time...maybe".....He doenst show up- so I buy myself in."

Now that doesn't go together with "half your action in everything".

When you make an agreement, it has to be consistent or somebody's going to get po'd no matter how it goes. If nothing else, this is a lesson that we all need to be crystal clear about what buy ins we're referring to when making staking agreements. That and avoid words like "all", "everything", "anything"... plus make sure that any agreements not covering a specific time period (weekend, a visit, etc) are done for specific buy ins.

Vorlin

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

why do you even ask? you know that we all have to say you´re right...

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

[ QUOTE ]
"I'm on the phone with him and im like "i'm a go play the Ceasar's tournament, do you want half my action in it?' and he said "I dunno..it depends if i get there on time...maybe".....He doenst show up- so I buy myself in."


[/ QUOTE ]
This is the most important part of the post, if this is what really happened then you have nothing to worry about.

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

'come out here and i'll get half your action in everything'

If my mate said that to me, it would count for the whole trip. End of story. But I guess I can trust my mates.

EDIT:

"I'm on the phone with him and im like "i'm a go play the Ceasar's tournament, do you want half my action in it?' and he said "I dunno..it depends if i get there on time...maybe".....He doenst show up- so I buy myself in."


If this really happened (and I'd be suurprised if you hadn't left some small detail out) then don't worry about it.

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

[ QUOTE ]
'come out here and i'll get half your action in everything'

If my mate said that to me, it would count for the whole trip. End of story. But I guess I can trust my mates.

EDIT:

"I'm on the phone with him and im like "i'm a go play the Ceasar's tournament, do you want half my action in it?' and he said "I dunno..it depends if i get there on time...maybe".....He doenst show up- so I buy myself in."


If this really happened (and I'd be suurprised if you hadn't left some small detail out) then don't worry about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is my point. You say he's a friend, he already paid for some of your buy-ins. I'm willing to bet even money that if your "friend" is asked he will not concur the phone conversation.

If you went to Vegas on the assumption that he had half your action then why are you trying to re-verify before the tournament...play the tourney, if you bust he owes you half a buy-in, if you win you owe him half the win (or whatever you agreed upon).

I would ship my friend the money in an instant. At the very least you're angle-shooting scum, at worst you're lying, cheating scum.

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

[ QUOTE ]

This is my point. You say he's a friend, he already paid for some of your buy-ins. I'm willing to bet even money that if your "friend" is asked he will not concur the phone conversation.

If you went to Vegas on the assumption that he had half your action then why are you trying to re-verify before the tournament...play the tourney, if you bust he owes you half a buy-in, if you win you owe him half the win (or whatever you agreed upon).

I would ship my friend the money in an instant. At the very least you're angle-shooting scum, at worst you're lying, cheating scum.

[/ QUOTE ]
this is crap.
OP: "want half my action in this tournament?"
friend: "I don't know"

that is the bottom line. any splitting of action must be made before the tournament begins. the fact that there was an agreement before the trip is rendered meaningless by the OP calling before the tournament to ask about this specific case.

I think we can agree that if OP had sat at $100/$200 and proceeded to drop tens of thousands of dollars, the friend would not be on the hook for half.

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

This is my point. You say he's a friend, he already paid for some of your buy-ins. I'm willing to bet even money that if your "friend" is asked he will not concur the phone conversation.

If you went to Vegas on the assumption that he had half your action then why are you trying to re-verify before the tournament...play the tourney, if you bust he owes you half a buy-in, if you win you owe him half the win (or whatever you agreed upon).

I would ship my friend the money in an instant. At the very least you're angle-shooting scum, at worst you're lying, cheating scum.

[/ QUOTE ]
this is crap.
OP: "want half my action in this tournament?"
friend: "I don't know"

that is the bottom line. any splitting of action must be made before the tournament begins. the fact that there was an agreement before the trip is rendered meaningless by the OP calling before the tournament to ask about this specific case.

I think we can agree that if OP had sat at $100/$200 and proceeded to drop tens of thousands of dollars, the friend would not be on the hook for half.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously there was a significant level of trust involved. This is A FRIEND. He is naturally assuming that you aren't going to sit at 100/200 because that would be a violation of the friendship.

In any case, it's a small price to pay to find out this person puts money above friendship.

Again, why go out of your way to clarify the tourney buy-in if he had alreay gotten half your action on two tournaments? Sounds like you went to gamble, luckboxed into a win and got greedy.

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

This is absolutely ridicilious! It sounds like you need some new friends. ANYBODY who REALLY plays poker and travels KNOWS the 'unspoken rules of 'stakes'. I'm sure when he said "He'll stake you if you come to vegas"...it meant that , 'he'll stake you here and there and take care of you when needed'.....This sounds like you went out on your own and bought yourself in and took the risk..and it sounds like if you lost, you weren't going to ask him for half the buy-in.

You got to watch out for guys like that. They jump on any opportunity to get into your money. I think its more [censored] up that he flat-out asked you for half the money 5 minutes after you won.

I think YOU'RE a moron, for even offering him 500 bucks. I wouldn't have given him a penny. The rules of the stake are "You're there at the time of buy in with half the money". He owns half your action in Vegas for all the tournament that he's directly involved with. That doesn't mean that you can't make the decision to buy yourself in. He doesn't own your 'poker soul' lol. It sounds like you chose to buy yourself in and wanted to pay for it and that's that.

Your friend is a complete moron who's greedy and sounds like he screws all his friends over. Don't feel guilty at all. You were over-generous by offering him anything, and he's a complete moron for spitting in your face and asking for more.

Re: POKER MORALS/ETHICS....What do you think of this situation...
 

[ QUOTE ]
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...a11/dciken.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

ROFL