Hourly rates...
 

I know this is a bit silly, but I wouldn't mind hearing hourly rates from players with decent samples. I just like to know what is possible. I'm a bit more interested in the PLO8 hourly rates since that's what I'll probally end up playing, seeing as how I likely suck at limit. Also throw in limits and # of tables if you feel like it [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Hourly rates...
 

What a set-up for a Fatballz $500 an hour brag thread.

For some realism, I'm a 12bb/100 player on the $1bb ($100 buy-in) tables. I play 3-4 tables at a time, and make 5.6bb per hour. I believe that is essentially between $33-$44 an hour.

I find that virtually every site has enough action at this level to find quality games at this leve. I think at the $200 level you lose the quantity of selection a bit and the play is somewhat tougher, above this level, $400-$2000 you are pretty much limited to Party and Stars, and there are no guarantees that you can multi-table on good tables. Notwithstanding the great success of Wintermute/Fatballz, I think your options in PL08 are pretty limited above the $200 level because of the size of the player pool. Above the $200 level I think you need to be flat out a very very good player if you want to sustain any winning, and if you are that good, there are other games with much greater availability. Just my .02

Re: Hourly rates...
 

I don't expect to get above 200PL, and expect that if I do get to 200PL, I'll probally have 100PL and 50PL games running as well.

[ QUOTE ]
and if you are that good, there are other games with much greater availability.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wondering if you mean PLO8 games or other poker games.

[ QUOTE ]
What a set-up for a Fatballz $500 an hour brag thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why even work 2hrs a day...

Re: Hourly rates...
 

[ QUOTE ]
What a set-up for a Fatballz $500 an hour brag thread.

For some realism, I'm a 12bb/100 player on the $1bb ($100 buy-in) tables. I play 3-4 tables at a time, and make 5.6bb per hour. I believe that is essentially between $33-$44 an hour.

I find that virtually every site has enough action at this level to find quality games at this leve. I think at the $200 level you lose the quantity of selection a bit and the play is somewhat tougher, above this level, $400-$2000 you are pretty much limited to Party and Stars, and there are no guarantees that you can multi-table on good tables. Notwithstanding the great success of Wintermute/Fatballz, I think your options in PL08 are pretty limited above the $200 level because of the size of the player pool. Above the $200 level I think you need to be flat out a very very good player if you want to sustain any winning, and if you are that good, there are other games with much greater availability. Just my .02

[/ QUOTE ]

nh

Re: Hourly rates...
 

Do hourly rates written in red ink count?

Re: Hourly rates...
 

$500/hr

Re: Hourly rates...
 

This last trip to Vegas I was +6 BB's /hr.

Re: Hourly rates...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't expect to get above 200PL, and expect that if I do get to 200PL, I'll probally have 100PL and 50PL games running as well.


[/ QUOTE ]

It sounds like you plan on playing mostly the same levels I do-- which is good because I think this affords you the best selection over a wide spectrum of sites, which also permits you bonus whore a bit (which for me is worth another $600+ a month, over various sites). Playing these levels-- with bonus and 3-4 tabling, I suppose it is possible to get up to $50 an hour, but I really think you should temper your expectations a little to more like $35-$40 because it isn't always possible to have 3-4 good tables going, and personally, I think much more than 5 hours of multi-tabling a day starts to degrade your performance, and makes you a player that is so well known in this size player pool that it becomes harder to generate the same win rate.

Re: Hourly rates...
 

hmmm. can you post a graph of this [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Hourly rates...
 

I agree with Mendacious. I generally play PLO8 $100 also and am running about 15bb/100 or about $14 per table hour. I usually 2-3 table (sometimes 4, if the games are good) so its $28-$42 hour or so, not counting bonuses (or rakeback, RIP).

I definitely think the fishiness drops as you move to $200 as well.

(I'll never be confused with Wintermute in terms of win rate, but its a nice side income... [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img])

Good luck,
AA

Re: Hourly rates...
 

[ QUOTE ]
hmmm. can you post a graph of this [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
Any graph I post could obviously just be fake, so it won't prove anything. You know where you can find such a graph, though...
At any rate, I only posted the 500/hr rate as a joke in response to your first reply in this thread; I'm under no illusions that the winrate I've had thus far in 2006 is going to last.

Re: Hourly rates...
 

I know I'm not a PLO player, but, at limit Omaha 8 up to the 5/10 level I'm currently fluctuating between $25-$30/hr.

I anticipate that when I eventually get a 2nd monitor and play 6-10 tables regularly that my hourly rate should be $30-$40/hr. I think that's on the conservative side, since it doesn't take into account my eventual hope to play frequently at the 15/30 and 20/40 level (and yes, there are fish there who are just as bad as the $0.50/$1 players, I just don't have the roll to play there yet)

Then again, my hourly rate is subject to change, if I keep raising before the flop and getting called by 6/9/9/K that spikes quads on the turn when I make Aces full. Ugh.

Re: Hourly rates...
 

These two posts probably cost you about $100. I guess Smash gave you back the car.

Re: Hourly rates...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know I'm not a PLO player, but, at limit Omaha 8 up to the 5/10 level I'm currently fluctuating between $25-$30/hr.


[/ QUOTE ]

One of the reasons I prefer PL08 to Limit, is that I perceive you can make hourly rates that are much higher relative to your perceived risk. By that I mean I can sit at a $100 table for 4 rounds if the cards run badly, and I am only down $6. If I sit at a 5/10 table I am down $30. Yet, I expect the hourly win rates are not that different. Personally I can't stand the thought of sitting down and 4 tabling and getting no cards for a few rounds and being stuck for $100. When you combine this with the drastically reduced ability to control pot sizes and chase in Limit, and I found that on a day to day basis my variance was MUCH greater in Limit than in PL, and higher variance makes me play worse and enjoy it less.

Re: Hourly rates...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I know I'm not a PLO player, but, at limit Omaha 8 up to the 5/10 level I'm currently fluctuating between $25-$30/hr.


[/ QUOTE ]

One of the reasons I prefer PL08 to Limit, is that I perceive you can make hourly rates that are much higher relative to your perceived risk. By that I mean I can sit at a $100 table for 4 rounds if the cards run badly, and I am only down $6. If I sit at a 5/10 table I am down $30. Yet, I expect the hourly win rates are not that different. Personally I can't stand the thought of sitting down and 4 tabling and getting no cards for a few rounds and being stuck for $100. When you combine this with the drastically reduced ability to control pot sizes and chase in Limit, and I found that on a day to day basis my variance was MUCH greater in Limit than in PL, and higher variance makes me play worse and enjoy it less.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good points. With my viewpoint, it hurts a lot less if you get quartered in limit, since there's usually enough other players along for the ride to make up for your loss. But in Pot Limit, I expect it's a much bigger deal.

Plus, in limit I can pretty much play on auto-pilot most of the time, while in Pot Limit I'd likely have to pay significantly more attention to the other players, thus causing me to reduce the number of tables and hands per hour I could get in (and that hurts my rakeback figures)

Re: Hourly rates...
 

SNAP!!!

Re: Hourly rates...
 

8tabling with three tables of 2/4 and 3/6, and two of 5/10 all at 2bb/100, I get $49/hr before rakeback, and ~$74 after rakeback.

1.5bb/100 would give you $37 before rakeback and $61 after.

Three tables of 50PL and 100PL at 15bb/100 and 10bb/100 would give you $53 before rakeback, and ~$60 after.

Re: Hourly rates...
 

[ QUOTE ]
8tabling with three tables of 2/4 and 3/6, and two of 5/10 all at 2bb/100, I get $49/hr before rakeback, and ~$74 after rakeback.

1.5bb/100 would give you $37 before rakeback and $61 after.

Three tables of 50PL and 100PL at 15bb/100 and 10bb/100 would give you $53 before rakeback, and ~$60 after.

[/ QUOTE ]

You'll also likely earn more points from the site you're at for playing 8 tables of limit as opposed to 3 tables of pot limit. Depending on the site you're at, the items you can purchase with those points may add up significantly.....

Re: Hourly rates...
 

I'd think that 2bb/100 at 2/4 to 5/10 is also more achievable than 10bb/100 at 100PL.

Table selection shouldn't matter as much with PL though since you can isolate the fish better.

Mendacious, doesn't ribbo 6 table 200PL?? Isn't any table playable as long as there are a couple of live ones??

Re: Hourly rates...
 

[ QUOTE ]
What a set-up for a Fatballz $500 an hour brag thread.

For some realism, I'm a 12bb/100 player on the $1bb ($100 buy-in) tables. I play 3-4 tables at a time, and make 5.6bb per hour. I believe that is essentially between $33-$44 an hour.

I find that virtually every site has enough action at this level to find quality games at this leve. I think at the $200 level you lose the quantity of selection a bit and the play is somewhat tougher, above this level, $400-$2000 you are pretty much limited to Party and Stars, and there are no guarantees that you can multi-table on good tables. Notwithstanding the great success of Wintermute/Fatballz, I think your options in PL08 are pretty limited above the $200 level because of the size of the player pool. Above the $200 level I think you need to be flat out a very very good player if you want to sustain any winning, and if you are that good, there are other games with much greater availability. Just my .02

[/ QUOTE ]


Interesting post, and I agree with this completely.

I dont do any table selection at all. I will just play any 4 tables of 200 PLO8 if I can find them, which I usually cant, or combine 200 and 100 as its usually the case. I find that a bad PLO8 is boring and very unprofitable, its mostly a struggle to take stabs at pots no one wants because people are just too tight when the games are bad. Getting 10bb/100 on a bad game is obviously impossible, I think a limit player would have a bigger win rate than someone who plays at bad tables, its that slow. Also PLO8 has a huge jump from 400 to 2k because currently in party there is literally nothing in between. The 600 and 1000 tables rarely get going if ever. So you must jump from 400 to 2k buy in tables. I think if you want to win small and just build a roll, PLO8 is fine, but if you want something more its going to be very difficult, unless you want to specialize in short handed play.

Re: Hourly rates...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think if you want to win small and just build a roll, PLO8 is fine,

[/ QUOTE ]

12+ tabling sngs or LHE is the way to go if you want a solid hourly rate without playing high stakes. LO8 isn't quite as good simply because you can't multitable as heavily, but can do so more than PLO8.

Puts me in a tough spot. I'm in this purely to make money. I don't like playing sngs and won't play more than 2-3 hours a day. PLO8 just doesn't have enough tables running for me to take advantage of my multitabling skills. LHE has way too much variance. I suck at LO8. I guess that leaves getting better at LO8 or 10 tabling 100NLHE.

Re: Hourly rates...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I guess that leaves getting better at LO8 or 10 tabling 100NLHE.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do both. I play limit holdem to make my money. I play 5/10 6-max LO8 to learn the game / have fun. I don't play LO8 often, but enough to have some fun and hopefully I don't suck as bad as my initial results say that I do.

There is definitely room to do both. If you want to play 6 hours a day then play 5 hours of HE and 1 of LO8. You will get better at LO8 and will still make money. Eventually you should get good enough at LO8 to make that your primary game.

Re: Hourly rates...
 

Average $10/hour 4 tabling $3 turbo SnGs along
with the occasional $5/$6 game. Ive also been
running well in the 1/2 limit, but that isn't
a very large sample size.

Re: Hourly rates...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I dont do any table selection at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

My winrate skyrocketed when i stopped doing that. That just baffles me that people would not pay attention to this.

-g

Re: Hourly rates...
 

8-10BB/100 on $200-600 PLO8. The hourly rate depends a lot on what level and how SH I'm playing.

btw, I pwn Mute HU.

Re: Hourly rates...
 

I PLAY YOU HEAD UP, ANYTIME!

(2k stakes)

Re: Hourly rates...
 

I stopped playing PLO8 (200 and 500) and switched to limit 5/10 and 10/20 recently (switched sites too).

When I played 200 and 500 PLO8, I made 14.51 BB/100 over a 4795 hand sample (part time over about 5 months). 500 was only 1013 hands at 8.54 BB/100, 200 was 3782 hands at 16.11 BB/100.

Not sure if either was sustainable long-term . . . actually was curious about it if anyone has insights. I didn't feel like I played particularly well or anything, I still felt like there were plenty of holes in my game.

I felt like I was too prone to the 'one big mistake' that would kill a session of gains, so I decided to switch to fixed-limit to limit the loss on my blow-ups.

So far at 5/10 and 10/20, I'm at 2016 hands (split about 60/40 between 5/10 and 10/20) and 6.44 BB/100 (7.91 BB/100 at 5/10, and 3.97 at 10/20).

I've gone from $31/hr to $42/hr since switching. Like I said, still curious if this is sustainable, I'm about 24%/5% (VP$IP/PFR) with 67% W/SD at both 5/10 and 10/20 so far. Are those rates sustainable with those % stats?

I also feel like the variance at 5/10 is lower than 200 and 10/20 is lower than 500.

Game______SD/100__WR/100__Hands
200 PLO8 - $245.03 - $64.44 (3782)
500 PLO8 - $818.84 - $85.35 (1013)
5/10 LO8 - $128.07 - $79.12 (1262)
10/20 LO8 - $245.04 - $79.44 (754)

Slightly higher overall hourly rate, incredibly lower varience equals lower heart attack risk and saner poker player from my perspective.

Hope that helps OP (I realize the sample is small) and if anyone is able to answer my questions as to sustainability, I'd greatly appreciate it. I have stuck exclusively to full (7-10) tables a LO8 (avg. 8.7 players), played some SH PLO8 (avg. 7.7 players), but mostly full there too, in case that matters.

Re: Hourly rates...
 

I would say looking at those numbers assuming they are somewhat typical of larger samples, that if you can handle the varience at 200 PLO8, you could switch to 10/20 LO8 without seeing much difference in terms of varience, assuming your game adapts to limit vs. pot limit.

Re: Hourly rates...
 

I can't comment on the win rates, but I will say that those samples are quite small [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]