2/4 AA kinda deep
 

$615 eff stacks

2 folds to villain who makes it $16,
he's been here a few orbits but has been quiet - if he's paying attention i've been pretty active w/ pfrs and the occasional 3bet, but i don't like nuts by any stretch. He prob isn't even paying attention, tho...
I 3bet to $50, folded back to him and he snap-calls.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (pot: $106)

He checks to me, I bet $60, he calls fast.

Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (pot: $226)

He checks to me, I bet $130(?), he insta-pushes $505.

Surf

if i'm betting this turn I should know what i'm going to do to a raise - i've been planning ahead alot more lately but was kind of autopiloting here. Thoughts?

Re: 2/4 AA kinda deep
 

Surf your bets are so tiny I call for sure here. It looks like you dont have much of a hand and you actually have AA. Bet more on flop and turn though.

Re: 2/4 AA kinda deep
 

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Surf your bets are so tiny I call for sure here. It looks like you dont have much of a hand and you actually have AA. Bet more on flop and turn though.

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They're like 3/5ths-2/3rds-ish. I remember reading awhile back that you don't need to make standard 3/4s-full psbs in RR'd pots, fwiw this is pretty consistent bet-sizing for me.

Surf

Re: 2/4 AA kinda deep
 

Surf, it is true you dont really need to bet more to charge draws here, but I would bet more to stack him by river.

Re: 2/4 AA kinda deep
 

I would check the turn for a pot controlled showdown. If he bets call if he checks bet, without more information it's impossible to know if this is KK/QQ/TT or the sets so I think a more passive line is in order.

BTW your flop bets are fine on this dry board, I don't see a point in betting more, KK c/rs here and you get it all in anyways.

Re: 2/4 AA kinda deep
 

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but i don't like nuts by any stretch

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good to know


unless he has 97 or 66, i don't think we can determine much from the timing. fast calls are usually weak and fast raises are usually strong. so if nothing changed between the flop and turn, then it's likely he just plays fast

you gotta call. KK probably plays it the same (you're not deep enough for KK to not go broke), and the turn put a flush draw out which gives lots of outs to all kinds of fun suited connectors that people like to call 3-bets with, like 98hh, T9hh, AJhh, QJhh. or maybe he made a semi-float on the flop with AKhh. so there's just too much doubt to fold here. KK, or a turn card that completed the rainbow, would be an interesting decision. i'd probably go broke in both cases though

and fwiw i agree with whoever said your bet sizing (which i think is fine/good) is more of a reason to call

Re: 2/4 AA kinda deep
 

Call.

Re: 2/4 AA kinda deep
 

call sir, i think he has 77/QQ/KK/naked jack often enough to call for sure. Also, i enjoy your bet sizing.

Re: 2/4 AA kinda deep
 

I would call here. Also, why did you bet the flop small?

Re: 2/4 AA kinda deep
 

bet sizing is fine, call

Re: 2/4 AA kinda deep
 

You played it perfectly on each street (bet sizing etc), call of course.

Re: 2/4 AA kinda deep
 

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You played it perfectly on each street (bet sizing etc), call of course.

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Wow, thanks, that's great to hear.

My NL experience has gone something like:
Limidonk/cs->nit->semi-lag
and I'm still learning what effects being LAGy has on the players around me, i'm not comfortable calling a push w/ AA on this board for 150bbs, but maybe I should be since my opponents have been reacting in bizarre ways? (sane-seeming opp b3b AI on K545 trn w/ 99 after minraising my cbet on the flop for 130bbs, i had A5s) I guess when you pound on ppl long enough they break?

Anyway, his insta-push caught me off guard, I was trying to get it in by the river, for some reason i didn't think he'd c/r AJ/QQ here though (i base this on no history, just how these games play)
that left KK/AA and sets (and the double gutter on the flop, if he'd call it pre which is HIGHLY doubtful)...I timed down and folded. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

does it make a difference if i hesitated for ~5-6 seconds before betting? i'm playing left-handed (carpal tunnel) and i'm not so good at clicking the bet amount box yet.

Surf

Re: 2/4 AA kinda deep
 

Surf in terms of bet sizing your basically right in r/r'd pots there's normally enough in pre that by 1/2 to 2/3 potting you can get all in if you want so it's normally not necessary to bet close to full pot.

Re: 2/4 AA kinda deep
 

insta = call

Re: 2/4 AA kinda deep
 

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insta = call

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Does he really think to himself (with QQ or AJ or JT or some-such) "okay, no matter what he bets i'm pushing, b/c i really want to get 150bbs in on this board."

I can understand if i bet smallish and he saw it, a lightbulb goes off and he starts to put me on AK or an a crap pair or something, but he didn't even have time to see that i bet small-ish.

Surf

Re: 2/4 AA kinda deep
 

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insta = call

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Does he really think to himself (with QQ or AJ or JT or some-such) "okay, no matter what he bets i'm pushing, b/c i really want to get 150bbs in on this board."

I can understand if i bet smallish and he saw it, a lightbulb goes off and he starts to put me on AK or an a crap pair or something, but he didn't even have time to see that i bet small-ish.

Surf

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if i didnt want to call a c/r on this board, id probably check behind and be content to call a riv bet or value bet if he checks behind. if i bet this, with any semblance of a hand, and villain puts it in, im beating them into the pot.

the exception would have to be people who love to just call down with something like 99, QJ, QQ, 87, etc. but when they push here its 88, 55, or JJ. those people are rare.

on the turn after you bet, you must call 375 to win ~1230.So you need ~30% equity vs his range; clearly, if his range is just sets, your equity does not meet this (2 outs not good enough!) but even if you throw in like 56, 86 (2paired things on you) you have decent calling equity.. and if he ever has QQ, KK, Jx, 87, HH, air, w/e. this is an easy easy call.

so to answer your question, does he really think those hands are worth pushing, universially "sure." Of course, if those villains know your hand, they probably wouldnt make the same move (although some morons may) but since they dont know your hand, and can only guess at a handrange, then yes, those hands are worth pushing