Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

My friend's dad played in the NFL for a number of years. He was on the Green Bay Packers for the 68-69 season (This was his rookie season, so he did not play in the first two Super Bowls).

Anyhow, there was a lot of talk among players and team personel (Not just those of the GBP's, either) that the NFL wanted the Jets to win the game. Some also speculated (no basis for such is provided) that Morrall was on the take.

As you may recall, the NFL was nowhere near the money-making juggernaught it is today. At that time, they were in their 3rd year of the AFL/NFL merger and the AFL teams were being dismissed as weak sisters. It was almost as if half of the teams were considered to be minor league ... that did not help promote growth of the sport.

Anyhow, the hoopla over Broadway Joe's prediction and the ensuing outcome did wonders for quickly bringing the AFL teams up to par. Also, it should be noted that this game was the first to by hyped as the "Super Bowl."

To this day, my friend (and his dad) are quite paranoid about fixing in sports and various and sundry "rig jobs."

Before dismissing this out of hand, recall that International soccer has had a host of match-fixing scandals, horse racing has had numerous fixing-scandals, and basketball has had point-shaving scandals.

Of course, most of these scandals have to go with the gambling aspect of the match, but many soccer scandals were orchestrated for better marketing, etc. for the league. Furthermore, every year the NBA playoffs seem to generate "theories" about helping the more popular teams into the finals.

Is it possible that the NFL orchestrated (or influence at least) the outcome of Super Bowl III?

Capsule Summary of game from Wiki:

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Super Bowl III was the third AFL-NFL Championship Game in professional American football, but the first to officially bear the name "Super Bowl" (The two previous AFL-NFL Championship Games would retroactively be called "Super Bowls" as well). This game is regarded as one of the biggest upsets in American sports history, and the most important Super Bowl ever played. The heavy underdog American Football League (AFL) champion New York Jets defeated the National Football League (NFL) champion Baltimore Colts, 16–7, in the first Super Bowl victory for the AFL.

The game was played on January 12, 1969 at the Orange Bowl in Miami, Florida. Entering Super Bowl III, the NFL champion Colts were heavily favored (in some books, by over 20 points) to defeat the AFL champion Jets. Although the upstart AFL had successfully forced the long-established NFL into a merger agreement three years earlier, the AFL was not generally respected as having the same calibre of talent as the NFL. Plus, the AFL representatives were heavily defeated in the first two Super Bowls.

After boldly guaranteeing a victory prior to the game, Jets quarterback Joe Namath completed 17 out of 28 passes for 206 yards, and was named the Super Bowl's Most Valuable Player. New York recorded 337 total yards, forced 5 turnovers and limited Baltimore to only one touchdown.

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Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

If the Colts did throw the game, it would be because gamblers paid them lots of money, not because the NFL told them to.

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

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If the Colts did throw the game, it would be because gamblers paid them lots of money, not because the NFL told them to.

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Who had more to gain? the NFL or the gamblers? I would be interested to find out whether the casinos got tipped on Jets moneyline bets.

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

Didn't Broadway Joe's gaurentee become a story AFTER the SB, and not before? At the time the game was played, it was just another mismatch between the AFL and NFL.

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

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Didn't Broadway Joe's gaurentee become a story AFTER the SB, and not before? At the time the game was played, it was just another mismatch between the AFL and NFL.

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I don't know. I did find this at Wikipedia:

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The apex of his career was his performance in the Jets' January 1969 win over the Baltimore Colts in the World Championship Game, now referred to as Super Bowl III. The Colts were touted as "the greatest football team in history". Former NFL star and coach Norm Van Brocklin ridiculed the AFL before the game, saying "This will be Namath's first professional football game." Writers from NFL cities insisted it would take the AFL several more years to be truly competitive with the NFL. Much of the hype surrounding the game was related to how it would either prove or disprove the proposition that the AFL teams were truly worthy of being allowed to merge with the NFL; the first two such games had resulted in blowout victories for the NFL champion champion in the two previous years, the Green Bay Packers, and the Colts were even more favored by media figures and handicappers than the Packers had been.



Three days before the game, Namath responded to a heckler with the now-famous line: "The Jets will win on Sunday, I guarantee it." His words made headlines across the country, but were dismissed as mere bravado by most observers.


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Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

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Is it possible that the NFL orchestrated (or influence at least) the outcome of Super Bowl III?


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So your theory is that there was an NFL conspiracy to to have the NFL team lose to the non-NFL team? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is it possible that the NFL orchestrated (or influence at least) the outcome of Super Bowl III?


[/ QUOTE ]
So your theory is that there was an NFL conspiracy to to have the NFL team lose to the non-NFL team? That makes no sense whatsoever.

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June of '66, the two leagues agreed to a merger, to be completed by '70. So, essentially, the Jets were not a "non-NFL team". The argument is that the Jets' win legitimized the merger, showing the old AFL teams were on a par with the old NFL teams.

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

What's the point of this? You can work out a way in which it would be in there interest to do so, I guess. But then what? There's no other evidence whatsoever, so what are you going to do? The whole idea that someone might have an interest in something crazy like this makes it possible/likely is stupid. If our only question is, as you asked it, is it possible, well, sure it's POSSIBLE, just not likely and there's no reason other than the bare metaphysical possibility that it happened to believe it. If by possible you mean likely/probable, then all we have is a possible motivation, which is of course nowhere near enough. And unless you or someone else has more information to present, we are at a dead end.

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

FWIW Oski does start some pretty absurd threads.

Exhibit A

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

Back in '83 Bubba Smith made some comments about the game being fixed.
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"That Super Bowl game, which we lost by nine points, was the critical year. The game just seemed odd to me. Everything was out of place. I tried to rationalize that our coach, Don Shula, got out-coached, but that wasn't the case. I don't know if any of my teammates were in on the fix."

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Most people just consider it "denial".

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW Oski does start some pretty absurd threads.

Exhibit A

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How is asking a question absurd. Maybe you need to read the post to see what it was about.

As for this one. How many times have you had an NFL player tell you that he and others believed that a specific game was fixed.

Not only that, he named a specific player he thought was on the take.

Finally, I never said it was my theory or that I believed it.

I simply asked whether anyone thought it was possible.

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

[ QUOTE ]
What's the point of this? You can work out a way in which it would be in there interest to do so, I guess. But then what? There's no other evidence whatsoever, so what are you going to do? The whole idea that someone might have an interest in something crazy like this makes it possible/likely is stupid. If our only question is, as you asked it, is it possible, well, sure it's POSSIBLE, just not likely and there's no reason other than the bare metaphysical possibility that it happened to believe it. If by possible you mean likely/probable, then all we have is a possible motivation, which is of course nowhere near enough. And unless you or someone else has more information to present, we are at a dead end.

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Other than the fact I that this was told to me by an NFL player that played at the time, and that he heard things about this in locker rooms, etc., I have no information that it really happened.

What kind of comment are you trying to make, anyway. What is the point of this? What is the point of any sports post? Are you really going to find out whether Barry Bonds is better than Babe Ruth, or whether Pedro Martinez is a better pticher than Sandy Koufax? Why ask a question if the answer cannot be definitively proven.

I suppose your brain is at a dead end. What is even more outrageous is that you reject it immediately as complete conjecture, even though this type of scenario has been uncovered many times in international soccer.

Again, the NFL then wasn't what it is today.

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW Oski does start some pretty absurd threads.

Exhibit A

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If you are going to make a comment like this, please elaborate.

Explain why the exhibit "A" thread is absurd.

Explain why this thread is absurd (as you have called it such by implication).

If you are going to take a shot at somebody, make sure you back it up.

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

I already addressed why it was absurd in my first post in this thread. Others in the Robert Lee thread explained why that was absurd better than I can.

I wasn't trying to be too harsh, sorry if I came off offensive.

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is it possible that the NFL orchestrated (or influence at least) the outcome of Super Bowl III?


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So your theory is that there was an NFL conspiracy to to have the NFL team lose to the non-NFL team? That makes no sense whatsoever.

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Doesn't anybody read around here?

I never stated it was my theory. I gave the source of this possible theory and some possible motives behind such a thing happening. I also provided some general examples of stuff like this happening in other leagues.

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

I know Morrall played horribly and Shula pulled him at some point; I forget when exactly?
Have you asked your friend's dad if he thinks the Chiefs-Vikings game the following year marginalizes this theory?

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

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I already addressed why it was absurd in my first post in this thread. Others in the Robert Lee thread explained why that was absurd better than I can.

I wasn't trying to be too harsh, sorry if I came off offensive.

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You didn't explain how this thread is absurd. You made a comment that if the game was fixed, it was because of gamblers, not the NFL. Obviously, the question whether the SBIII was fixed is not absurd to you since you offered the source of the possible fix. You didn't explain why it wouldn't be the NFL, however.

As to the other thread, not one person claimed the thread was absurd, much less explained why it would be considered absurd.

Again, if you want to take a shot at someone, make sure you back it up.

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

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I know Morrall played horribly and Shula pulled him at some point; I forget when exactly?
Do you think the Chiefs-Vikings game the following year marginalizes this theory?

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I think that is an excellent point. I am certain that the Chiefs matched up well with the Vikings on paper, and that their win did not raise that many eyebrows.

However, the fact that "parity" may have been on the horizon at the time of SBIII, makes it even less likely that the NFL orchestrated the Jets winning.

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

Of course no post in a sports forum will "do anything". But if you are comparing two players, say, you can bring up various statistics, ways of looking at them, etc, and go back and forth in an interesting if nerdy debate. Here, it's like "ok this one guy told me that he heard this really crazy conspiracy theory, could it be true?" Sure, it could be, it isn't very likley, there's no other evidence of any kind (Some guy thought the game didn't seem right, ooo boy, there's a smoking gun!), so it's really just people answering "how crazy are you?"

Quite.

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

[ QUOTE ]
Of course no post in a sports forum will "do anything". But if you are comparing two players, say, you can bring up various statistics, ways of looking at them, etc, and go back and forth in an interesting if nerdy debate. Here, it's like "ok this one guy told me that he heard this really crazy conspiracy theory, could it be true?" Sure, it could be, it isn't very likley, there's no other evidence of any kind (Some guy thought the game didn't seem right, ooo boy, there's a smoking gun!), so it's really just people answering "how crazy are you?"

Quite.

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So, I am crazy for asking what other people think about a topic?

Ok. Thanks for that.

I am sure there were plenty of people surprised that Serie A was caught fixing games for popular clubs.

If you weren't such a moron and decided to read the posts before you posted yourself, you will see that its not my theory and I am just asking what others think about it specifically, and also was wondering if they think about this stuff in general.

But, thanks for your input.

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

Why do you have to be so defensive about everything?

And no, you are wrong, people weren't that surprised about the Serie A match fixing. And, shocking to you I know, Serie A was not beind the match fixings!

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

Actually, there was a Chiefs game in this era that was pulled off the board, but no evidence of foul play emerged. Lenny Dawson's reputation was tarnished by an alleged association with a gambler, as I recall. Little came of that either.

Gambling was fast and loose on the short-lived, hard-to-handicap U.S.F.L. and a boyhood bandito pal of mine -- a former college player with insider connections -- made a killing (literally). The bookmaker decided it was cheaper to murder him than to pay him. RIP. The irony was that, known by few, and not by me, the lad was making a fortune at another dangerous activity and his gambling action was just for grins. Some grins...

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

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Why do you have to be so defensive about everything?

And no, you are wrong, people weren't that surprised about the Serie A match fixing. And, shocking to you I know, Serie A was not beind the match fixings!

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Let's see: You comment that I am known to make absurd threads without supporting your comment; another poster calls me crazy.

Yeah, I suppose I shouldn't comment about that, lest I appear defensive.

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

most the people I know think this game was fixed


From the highlights I've seen, I agree.

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

[ QUOTE ]
most the people I know think this game was fixed


From the highlights I've seen, I agree.

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I am going to make sure to watch the NFL Films movie on SBIII this weekend on ESPN.

Most of the talk centers on Morrall. Do you think that is all it took?

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

My question. How many people would it take to fix a football game?

Also, wouldn't someone with "the goods" have written a "tell-all" book by now.

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

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My question. How many people would it take to fix a football game?

Also, wouldn't someone with "the goods" have written a "tell-all" book by now.

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One QB.

Yes, you would think if someone was willing to sell out then, he would be willing to sell out now.

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

Oski,
This thread isn't absurd but, I think it's intersting but you really make an ass out of yourself in this thread(not the OP)

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

[ QUOTE ]
Oski,
This thread isn't absurd but, I think it's intersting but you really make an ass out of yourself in this thread(not the OP)

[/ QUOTE ]

Please elaborate.

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oski,
This thread isn't absurd but, I think it's intersting but you really make an ass out of yourself in this thread(not the OP)

[/ QUOTE ]

Please elaborate.

[/ QUOTE ]
Read your posts.

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oski,
This thread isn't absurd but, I think it's intersting but you really make an ass out of yourself in this thread(not the OP)

[/ QUOTE ]

Please elaborate.

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Read your posts.

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Figures. Another cheap shot by someone unwilling to subtantiate the accusation.

You are entitled to your opinion, for sure, but as is, its nothing but name calling.

So: tally so far in this thread. One poster calls me absurd; another crazy; and another an ass. Thanks.

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

If it makes you feel any better, one of the people bitching makes an ass out of himself with nearly every post in this forum.

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

I like how we are using Wikipedia as the end all for sources of evidence now. Didn't Stephen Colbert teach people anything?

Re: Super Bowl Conspiracty: Jets v. Colts
 

Lou Michaels missed 2 FGs in that game, tho so did Jim Turner. I've read something somewhere about Michaels' brother being given money and/or having 'shady' connections but both men vociferously denied any wrongdoing.

The SBIII movie is pretty cool; all remastered & HD'd. Both team played horribly, except for the Jets long drive fueled by Matt Snell, who should've been the MVP.

The main suspicion over Morrall centers over he didn't spot Jimmy Orr wide open on the flea-flicker. Hell, was Brady on the take when it took him so long to see no one was on Caldwell in the AFC Champ game? IIRC, Morall did have some friends of friends of friends who may have been shady but who knows.

Morrall also threw 3 picks, worst game of his career. Brady played terrible in Denver last year, too.

Morrall played on the '72 Dolphins and took over after Griese was hurt in Week 5 until the 2nd half of the AFC Championship game.

Namath made the Guarantee a few days before the game, and told everyone he knew to bet on the Jets at 7-1, according to the recent (excellent) bio of him.

The book also goes in depth into the Jets strategies for the game; every former Jet interviewed said they were almost over-confident before the game. I've also read the long out of print book on the Chiefs season leading to Supe IV, and Hank Stram similarly vivisected the Vikings films before the game.

Most people around at the time, and I knew quite a few, claim BOTH Ali-Liston fights were fixed. Liston himself wavered on the subject, tho at the end of his life he was hardly reliable.

It can be very hard to process when a huge favorite loses, or when YOU lose as the big fave. Foreman claimed conspiracy for years after Zaire, but later said he just couldn't handle the loss any other way.