Heads up stud pointers
 

I basically just play it really aggro but are there any good strategies or things to keep in mind against a standard, non-crazy opponent?

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

Basically you are just looking to confuse your opponenet, getting them to 'check and call' mode against you. When you've done that, you decide when the money goes into the pot.

Lots of betting mixed in with checkraises early.

Remember, if the antes are small, you arent picking that much up per hand. 10 steals in a row get wiped out if you keep betting no hand into his pair of 7s to the river.

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

There is no one way to play stud heads up. Depends totally on the tendencies of your opponent. You can't maximize winrate without fully exploiting whatever mistakes your opponent brings to the table.

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

There is a great chapter about playing SCS short in SCSFAP, read that first..

Then you have to start thinking about the size of the pot. If you are the forced bet you are generally getting somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.75:1 when the villain completes, which is a small overlay but worthy of playing on in some pots where you can win the next street if you improve so look for marginal calls, they are fine to make.

If you are first to act then you at a huge disadvantage in one way, and an advantage in another because you must lay the odds by completing the bet while it costs more than the size of the pot to steal the antes in most situations - but you also have the advantage of being able to steal easily although its at a greater financial risk.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

Thanks TT,
One strategy I tried to employ was to bringin- raise my opponent alot when I had a pair and occasionally when I didnt, especially when the rank of our door cards was close. Should this be a standard part of razz/stud heads up play? I lay him good odds to continue (better than 3:1) with this play so it seems more effective against opponents who will often fold to a bet on fourth street unimproved.

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks TT,
One strategy I tried to employ was to bringin- raise my opponent alot when I had a pair and occasionally when I didnt, especially when the rank of our door cards was close. Should this be a standard part of razz/stud heads up play? I lay him good odds to continue (better than 3:1) with this play so it seems more effective against opponents who will often fold to a bet on fourth street unimproved.

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Simple: Big hands play big pots. Little hands play little pots.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

If you're used to playing shorthanded limit hold'em, one thing to keep in mind is that the initial pot in a shorthanded stud game is proportionally smaller. In a standard $15/30 hold'em game, the initial pot is $25 whether there are two players or ten. In a $15/30 stud game, the initial pot is $21 in a full game but only $9 in a heads-up game. So stealing isn't as important in a shorthanded stud game.

I recommend that you avoid playing big pots with no pair and no draw. This is experience talking here.

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

There have been a few posts about stealing not being as important financially in a short handed game. While this may be true, I think it overlooks the mental part of the game. I find that relentless stealing frustrates certain opponents and induces over aggressiveness with marginal hands. If you cut back on the stealing, they are also more likely to properly put you on a hand when you have something.

If you have the discipline to get out early when you are caught red handed, then lots of stealing can set you up for big pots every once in a while. It can also put some opponents on tilt when you catch big hands and they label you as a lucky fish that plays junk. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

My approach has always been simple: I let my opponent win the small pots and I win the big ones.

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

Stick to simple solid stud. Beats mental every time.

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

The main consideration is the ante structure, as this determines roughly what percentage of your hands should be played. If the ante is high, I almost always raise on 3rd street when I'm not the bring-in, unless my opponent is very loose. If the ante is small, I play a game that somewhat resembles how I play at a full table when I'm not in a steal position. When I do steal, I feel that my raises are more for the purpose of long-term deception rather than immediate profit. When there is a medium-sized ante, I play a style that rests somewhere in between.

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

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Stick to simple solid stud. Beats mental every time.

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Different strokes for different folks I guess. I have found my most profitable HU sessions are when I get the edge mentally, and villain lapses into poor aggro play. When this happens, it is like a switch has been turned on and the tone of the game changes dramatically. I think it is very difficult to induce this behaviour with "simple solid stud". Moreover, I think that you are leaving money on the table with this approach.

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

You are very EZ to play Istream. Simple works for me

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

FREEZEOUT!

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

OK slugger - I was not trying to get personal here. Also, you need to tell me who you are to take any of this seriously. Do it in a PM if you like. Otherwise this post is just another example of you being a blowhard. Typical - instead of a rational thoughtful response you resort to a personal attack. You pollute every thread you become part of. Toddle off and resume your quest for world poker domination.

If you want to be civil, then I readily admit that there are HU opponents who are better than me and where the thinking in my posts do not apply. If you are one of them, then congratulations.

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

Does this mean no freezeout?

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

Sounds like we may have had one already and I didn't know it [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

This is CIVIL. HU is SIMPLE. You play for the big pots, tricky doesn't cut it. Come back to FTP and we will play soon enough. And you got very personal the last time we debated HU about a month ago (12-10-06). Apparently you were looking for help for your HU stud play, just about the time your getting a beating on FTP. You told me never to respond to your posts again, but you can respond anytime. So come back and take another beating. Then you can post again for help. The same advice i gave to the OP I gave you on 12/10. KISS

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

Poker,

You are so busy insulting everyone, you can't keep them straight. I never told you not to post in my threads. I suspect that you actually know what you are doing at the poker table, but you disguise it with one liners like the one I reacted to in that thread. The thread was not a whine about getting a beating if you go back and take another look. There is one player that smacked me real hard around that time I think. The name started with P. He stopped playing me once I started to turn things around. Nevertheless he damaged the bankroll a fair bit. If that was you, then have a beer on me.

Here is the thread where you seem to think I told you not to post. Keep posting in my threads - it doesn't matter to me. It would be good though if you tried to be more constructive once in while. Also, I have not disappeared from FT - I am there at least a few times a week.

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

David Sklansky SCSFAP pages 172 and 173

"But if you just keep this one thing in mind and use your judgement, experience and your knowledge of poker concepts, you will be well on your way to playing properly."

"One thing". Sounds simple to me.

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

I have been thinking about this subject a lot lately but it would take a long time to give a detailed reasoning, so I will just present my conclusions.


1. Complete or fold (I haven't decided yet on whether limping is ok if your upcard has the same rank as your opponent's... probably it is.)

2. The % of hands you fold depends on the difference between your rank and his. For example in 2 v. A, complete 100%. In 3 v. 2, probably don't complete much more than say 55%.

3. if you complete and he raises consider calling with as little as 3 overcards to his door, although this is probably often wrong. I think with 3 overcards to his door card and a 2 flush and a 2 straight you should definitely call.

4. the question of what to reraise if he raises your completion is interesting. I think it can be quite viable to simply reraise nothing. Presumably he's not going to fold much if at all outright, and this allows you represent a much wider distribution of hands when you check-raise on 4th or 5th than if you had simply 3 bet on 3rd.

Following my point about calling his raise with overcards, you will have a lot of crap hands when you just call his raise, so you kind of force him to fire on 4th fairly light. Thus you don't have to worry much about losing action.

On the other hand if you like to reraise 3rd then you could probably just do it with all split pairs and all 3 flushes and 3 straights.

If you called his raise on 3rd with a legit hand, don't automatically slowplay to 5th. Base this decision on how likely he is to be spooked on 5th by your 4th street call or any scare cards you might catch.

5. Now for the bring-in perspective. The crucial point is this - you are a dog on average and the pot is very small, so do not feel bad about folding quite liberally.

The way it works is that even though you both probably have crap, there is about a 12% chance he has a split pair as much and around 5% chance he has a buried pair. So depending on how low your door card there is a decent chance he has you in terrible shape with an overpair to most or all of your cards. That possibility is why you have to play tight even though he probably has crap.

What to reraise in the bring-in? One simple plan would be to reraise all pairs, all 3 flushes, and all 3 straights. I don't like this though for a couple of reasons. First, it gives away a lot of useful info for later streets. Second, depending on how high is doorcard is relative to yours, some of your legit hands are not that strong. (For example a split pair of deuces versus an A upcard). If his upcard is much higher than yours you probably have little fold equity, so you are better off seeing how the boards develop and maybe check-raising later, maybe folding later.

Also even though it's tempting to deny your opponent a free card, consider that there is great value in getting him to bluff 4th and 5th with rags. On the other hand he might just check-fold 4th, having got a free card for nothing. You have to strike the balance somewhere but don't be too quick to announce you have a pair. Don't afraid to take the hand past 3rd. (The best sequence is when you catch apparently bad cards on 4th and 5th, and they fire both street and then you raise 5th and they fold - when this happens you often got 3 extra small bets by not reraising 3rd.)

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

This is all very good thinking, but I think that most of winning heads up play (once you have a grasp of odds and different strategic options) is about adjusting your play to that of your opponent and not letting unlikely situations affect future hands (for example, you bet kings up all the way and it turns out your opponent was slow playing trips he hit on fourth, filled on sixth and now raises sixth and bets seventh, leavingyou feeling like a chump, even though you played the hand right).

It's also important to note that structure matters alot as to what you call with on 3rd. In a 3-6 game wtih a .50 ante, $1 bring in/$3 complete, it's correct to limp more and complete/call completions less. But when it's a 2-4 game with a .25 ante and a $1 bring in, it's correct to both raise and call raises more.

But that's abstract. Against a timid opponent who will often fold to raises, it's always correct to raise more. Against a calling station, it's correct to raise less with marginal hands but more with strong ones. And against most opponents it's important to play to their basic tendencies and how you think they are trying to play you.

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

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Also, I have not disappeared from FT - I am there at least a few times a week.

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QFT.

You and I had a splendid time avoiding playing against each other at FTP's 5/10 stud table last night. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

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I never told you not to post in my threads.

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once you post, its not your thread - its 2+2's thread. Got it? good. The "its my thread" attitude is really foul when it occasionally pops up in these forums.

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

[ QUOTE ]
once you post, its not your thread - its 2+2's thread. Got it? good. The "its my thread" attitude is really foul when it occasionally pops up in these forums.

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Settle down man or at least save the lesson for someone who has actually said this. I was just telling PokerCPA that I never asked him to stay out of my threads. This does not mean that I consider any thread to be mine. Sheesh

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

Would you like to debate simple vs mental? Or has the OP had enough?

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

No thanks - these debates just end up with you insulting people. I don't want to cause any more board pollution than I already have.

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

Hey David's conclusion is tough to beat and not the least be insulting. Sums it up rather nicely. David wins and so does the book 2Handed.

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

I agree with MRBAA on both of his points.. Lstream and MRBAA should settle this with a Freezeout, and that HU play is all about adjusting to player tendencies..

The fact of the matter is that almost all players are going to adjust to their opponents in HU play whereas in full ring play, people take less into consideration..

Consider a pretty loose player but not a total fish in a full ring game.. fish brings it in, folded around to a solid player with a Q up completes.., highest card showing , with a T left to act, completes and the bring in thinks.. "He's on a steal.." and calls with his deuces not realizing that the guys folded the last 15 hands.... Consider HU, where he realizes his opponent folded the last 8 hands , he might fold his A4T when the guy with the Q raises...

I agree with lstream, relentless raises, etc, will make for a tough battle..

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

I was suggesting that lstream and pokercpa have a freezeout, not issuing a challenge.

Re: Heads up stud pointers
 

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I was suggesting that lstream and pokercpa have a freezeout, not issuing a challenge.

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Yo, I mistyped.. I meant to say "Lstream and pokercpa" ..

Your post was really funny.