Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB deep
 

Villain is 22.5/16.8/2.0


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($449.55)
SB ($373.25)
BB ($199)
UTG ($432.20)
MP ($256.30)
CO ($191)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $8</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls $8, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: ($19) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $14</font>, Hero calls $14.

Turn: ($47) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $38</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $138</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $223

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB deep
 

Wow this is an insanely easy shove. Also, not raising flop is pretty bad.

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB
 

Villain can do this with 99,TT,JJ, possibly QQ, maybe sometimes KK and AA. JT is possible.

The only hand you are behind is KQ.

You are way ahead of his range, so allin looks good.

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB deep
 

rizzle the fizzle. because then if he insta shoves, you can think about folding.

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB
 

Gross, he can easily have a set here. My god this is quite bad. Preflop I prefer re-popping. Definitely raise flop, he is not 3-betting that often given how deep you are. Since you didn't raise the flop you should never fold here. Just shove now, because he either has a set or a big draw that wants FE. Either way you don't know what cards are bad on the river,and you don't want to lose action or make a huge mistake if he shoves.

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB deep
 

This board is so draw heavy, do we think it is possible that he could semi-bluff raise with a huge draw? The only made hands that beat us are KQ and Q8 and Q8 is pretty much out of the question. I think his range contains a lot more likely holdings.

I feel like this is a semi bluff with Overs + FD

His raise is large enough that it feels like he is trying to take it down right now, how much FE do you think we have with a push? (not saying it is the right play)

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB
 

this is a really bad fold

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB
 

also, this is not a tough decision at all

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB deep
 

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Wow this is an insanely easy shove. Also, not raising flop is pretty bad.

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This is a great call on the flop IMO. Raising is ok, but there are a lot of hands that we can represent on the turn and we have a very hidden draw. There is also very little to representing by raising the flop.

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB
 

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Wow this is an insanely easy shove. Also, not raising flop is pretty bad.

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Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB deep
 

not that we are bluffing, I think this is a situation where we are the one getting the value

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB
 

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Wow this is an insanely easy shove. Also, not raising flop is pretty bad.

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This is a great call on the flop IMO. Raising is ok, but there are a lot of hands that we can represent on the turn and we have a very hidden draw. There is also very little to representing by raising the flop.

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You misread the hand. We have no draw. We have a straight.

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB
 

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Wow this is an insanely easy shove. Also, not raising flop is pretty bad.

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This is a great call on the flop IMO. Raising is ok, but there are a lot of hands that we can represent on the turn and we have a very hidden draw. There is also very little to representing by raising the flop.

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Flop call is okay for deception since the stacks are deep and we want to disguise our hand. But it is flat wrong that we can't rep anything with a flush draw. This is like the most coordinated board ever, and so hero can easily rep a wide range with a flop raise. So you should be raising this flop with a wide range anwyays, so it is a pretty easy raise when you have the 2nd nuts.

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB
 

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Gross, he can easily have a set here. My god this is quite bad. Preflop I prefer re-popping.

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Why would you want to give up some of your positional advantage and re-open the betting, for a little bit of FE preflop? Especially this deep with a hand that is hidden?

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB
 

I raise flop. As played, I probably just shove and hope to get a call from JJ or something like that.

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB
 

Do you really think a set would risk giving a free card on the turn on such a draw heavy board?

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB
 

agreed shoudl have raise flop, only behind to KQ so you love this flop, i hope you never ever fold this again, plusif you are always that scared you definately fold to much! Turn is easy shove, he is strong so will proabably call which is what you want cause you are way ahead at his stage!

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB
 

yes. maybe a set shouldn't, but in practice a set often will.

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB
 

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Do you really think a set would risk giving a free card on the turn on such a draw heavy board?

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Free cards are not that important when the pot is small and you have deep stacks behind. If he thinks you will often bet a draw or pair + draw in this spot then it is much more +EV for him to c/r the turn. If you indeed to check, it is not that bad because he is not going to make a huge mistake on the river with a set.

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB
 

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Wow this is an insanely easy shove. Also, not raising flop is pretty bad.

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This is a great call on the flop IMO. Raising is ok, but there are a lot of hands that we can represent on the turn and we have a very hidden draw. There is also very little to representing by raising the flop.

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You misread the hand. We have no draw. We have a straight.

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yup, I totally misread the hand. My comments should be opposite, raising should be better because there are are so many draws that we may have, and few made hands.

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB
 

ok so apparently this hand is super [censored] standard. Should I be worried if after 3000 posts, and 3 years of playing, and over 500k hands in pokertracker, I still don't know how to play this hand? Shouldn't I be concerned?

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB
 

I am sorry to be another to say it, but this is REALLY bad. I probably raise the flop, but I don't hate the call. PLEASE shove the turn.

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB deep
 

raise flop for sure.

As for turn, I get it all in quick for 100bb. For 200bb, I dont hate the fold. Here's why: This guy looks solid. Looks like he either has the 16 KQ combos or one of the 11 combos of a set/AsJs/AsKs. The fact that the c/r takes place on turn puts more weight on the straight.

So it seems super nitty, but I dont hate a turn fold 200bb deep.

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB deep
 

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raise flop for sure.

As for turn, I get it all in quick for 100bb. For 200bb, I dont hate the fold. Here's why: This guy looks solid. Looks like he either has the 16 KQ combos or one of the 11 combos of a set/AsJs/AsKs. The fact that the c/r takes place on turn puts more weight on the straight.

So it seems super nitty, but I dont hate a turn fold 200bb deep.

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Sure if you don't like to make money in the long run this is not so bad.

If you do like money, it's really bad.

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB
 

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this is a really bad fold

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See above. If he has KQ more power to him, but 90% of the time, you stack him here.

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB deep
 

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raise flop for sure.

As for turn, I get it all in quick for 100bb. For 200bb, I dont hate the fold. Here's why: This guy looks solid. Looks like he either has the 16 KQ combos or one of the 11 combos of a set/AsJs/AsKs. The fact that the c/r takes place on turn puts more weight on the straight.

So it seems super nitty, but I dont hate a turn fold 200bb deep.

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Sure if you don't like to make money in the long run this is not so bad.

If you do like money, it's really bad.

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What range do you put villain based on turn action?

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB
 

he could have 99, TT, JJ, JT, AQs, AKs (among other combo draws that I don't want to list, QJs, etc)

how could you possibly fold here, knowing that it's pretty reasonable for him to play all of these hands this way? (you didn't raise the flop, he could think you are floating him and that his draw has lots of FE or perhaps even he has the best hand with QQ!)

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB
 

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Wow this is an insanely easy shove. Also, not raising flop is pretty bad.

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Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB
 

this is a really bad fold. you got cute on the flop and get a beautiful brick turn and you folded!?

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB deep
 

shove, i put him on a set or overpair here

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB deep
 

You didn't bet the flop like you hit it. and 78 is not likely what he has you on..... He is likely afraid of you having AQ or AK or two spades. I would put him on pair or set and trying to push you out... You win this most of the time.. 70%+ would be my guess....

Has he pushed before? Has he had to show cards?

But what would I know.... I've only posted 5 times. ;')

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB
 

PLaying weaktight and scared is not the way to beat this game...

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB
 

Assuming he does this with KQ and a set
16 possibilities of KQ and I win 0%
9 possibilities of a set and I win 64% of the time
I'm basically even money against AKs/AQs so we can almost ignore those
I find it unlikely but he might do this with a pair+straight draw or pair + flush draw and even then I'm only ~64% favorite.

His play is horrible if he has AA or KK considering how deep we are right? And his stats don't show him as being horrible

Everyone who's saying "you win this 70+%" or "i see you winning this 90% of the time". Is that a guess or did you put him on a range and run some twodimes simulations or what?

What makes this an easy push again?

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB
 

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My god this is quite bad.

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i loled.

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB
 

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Assuming he does this with KQ and a set
16 possibilities of KQ and I win 0%
9 possibilities of a set and I win 64% of the time
I'm basically even money against AKs/AQs so we can almost ignore those
I find it unlikely but he might do this with a pair+straight draw or pair + flush draw and even then I'm only ~64% favorite.

His play is horrible if he has AA or KK considering how deep we are right? And his stats don't show him as being horrible

Everyone who's saying "you win this 70+%" or "i see you winning this 90% of the time". Is that a guess or did you put him on a range and run some twodimes simulations or what?

What makes this an easy push again?

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You are right on this one. This isn't an easy push by any means and you have to put hands like QJs, JTs, AJ, KK, and AA into his range to stick it in. That still might be reasonable, but this isn't a gimmee and against a lot of 100/200NL players a fold has got to be best here.

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB
 

flop is very bad, anyone advocating a call this deep is :S

on the turn, shove if u want, call is ok.

pf re-raise if you want but i like calling more.

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB
 

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flop is very bad, anyone advocating a call this deep is :S

on the turn, shove if u want, call is ok.

pf re-raise if you want but i like calling more.

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I thought calling on the flop when you're deep is good because it's easier to put him on a hand when the pot is small (which is more important to do when stacks are deep than when they are shallow)

Re: Toughest hand I\'ve had in a long time. Ass end of straight 200BB
 

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flop is very bad, anyone advocating a call this deep is :S

on the turn, shove if u want, call is ok.

pf re-raise if you want but i like calling more.

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I thought calling on the flop when you're deep is good because it's easier to put him on a hand when the pot is small (which is more important to do when stacks are deep than when they are shallow)

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on this flop i would imagine you have a wide range of mediocre hands thus we need to raise our very strong hand.

Next we have pretty much the nuts and villain will be willing to get AI with a variety of holdings that are less than 40% against us. Our hand should not be much further defined by raising and his range for calling the raise will also be fairly wide.

I would imagine that his range is much further defined when he calls our raise than just by betting.

On the turn his holding when he c/r can be a bluff, can be a hand looking to get AI by the river, it's very hard to tell.

IMO it's a bad fold but against some opponents it can be good. The more often you will bet here when checked to with mediocre hands the more he should be bluffing, the more you bet with draws and strongish made hands the more he should be value c/ring.

When stacks are this deep and our range should be fairly wide we should be trying to get as much in as quickly as possible while his range is fairly wide before villain opts to slowdown. Not raising here is a mistake.