Are you winning with High Card?
 

Well, that's it basically. PT gets stuck when I try to look for hand information that is more than a month old so I can't get any decent sample size, but in general I am losing or almost break even.

I believe high card is supposed to show some profit so let's see how big a leak this is...

Re: Are you winning with High Card?
 

mine has always been clearly in the red after significant amount of hands.

Re: Are you winning with High Card?
 

I am in the red and have a W$SD of 33%. I am a showdown monkey and take A high to s.d. to often though.

Re: Are you winning with High Card?
 

That window shows all hands. i.e. if you fold 72o on the flop in the BB when you hit nothing, you just lost .5BB with a High card. Click that box that says "show only hands that where not folded." If it's still in the read, then you might have a problem.

Re: Are you winning with High Card?
 

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That window shows all hands. i.e. if you fold 72o on the flop in the BB when you hit nothing, you just lost .5BB with a High card. Click that box that says "show only hands that where not folded." If it's still in the read, then you might have a problem.

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I forgot to mention that but I thought it was obvious.

Re: Are you winning with High Card?
 

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That window shows all hands. i.e. if you fold 72o on the flop in the BB when you hit nothing, you just lost .5BB with a High card. Click that box that says "show only hands that where not folded." If it's still in the read, then you might have a problem.

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I forgot to mention that but I thought it was obvious.

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Then it's probably a problem with you showing down too much or not taking shots at pots that are up for grabs. Or you're just running bad.

Re: Are you winning with High Card?
 

leader what should you W$@SD% be when you have it filtered? i cant image anybody have better than around 5%

I am at -11% but only have a sample size of 900ish hands

Re: Are you winning with High Card?
 

I don't know what it should be. Mine is 20%

Re: Are you winning with High Card?
 

jesus, over how many hands? i have been running bad, but i also take A hi to showdown too much as well.

are you checking the turn alot and calling a bet? or betting the turn and checking the river?

Re: Are you winning with High Card?
 

It is not possible to be winning with high card.

Re: Are you winning with High Card?
 

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jesus, over how many hands? i have been running bad, but i also take A hi to showdown too much as well.

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~2K

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are you checking the turn alot and calling a bet? or betting the turn and checking the river?

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Depends on villain (more aggr. check the turn), my outs (3-6 outs generally check more or less bet), the board (the lower the cards-bet/the more gs-bet)

Re: Are you winning with High Card?
 

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It is not possible to be winning with high card.

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If you check that box, it is.

Re: Are you winning with High Card?
 

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It is not possible to be winning with high card.

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If you check that box, it is.

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No.

Re: Are you winning with High Card?
 

Trying to maximize the amount you win (or minimize the amount you lose) with high card taken to showdown is often counterproductive to maximizing EV.

Consider the following situation. You raise preflop and only the BB calls. A flop comes, he checks and you bet. Turn comes, he checks, and you have no hand and no draw. You know that this individual is passive and a loose flop peeler. He will frequently bet the river if you check behind on the turn. You estimate that on this board he will fold to your turn bet 1/3 of the time. You have a profitable bet since there are 3 BB in the pot and you are risking 1 to win it, so you make money anytime he folds more than 25% of the time.

But notice that if you make this play, 2 out of 3 times you end up checking behind the river with nothing and losing a showdown with high card (let's ignore the possibility of pairing on the river to simplify the analysis). You can improve your amount won/lost at SD with high card by checking behind, as the opponent will often bet the river and you can now fold.

Re: Are you winning with High Card?
 

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It is not possible to be winning with high card.

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If you check that box, it is.

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No.

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Edit: what I wrote was dumb, but I still think it's very possible.

Re: Are you winning with High Card?
 

ok so i clicked the magic box and i am now a winner over about 500k hands.

Re: Are you winning with High Card?
 

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ok so i clicked the magic box and i am now a winner over about 500k hands.

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Actually, i think what you see in those stats depends a lot on site you're playing at. HHs from different sites are processed differently. For instance, when i click that check box, nothing happens for me (Stars database). In Party database, i do become a small winner.

Re: Are you winning with High Card?
 

drsavage, good observation. i just combed over my earlier and i was a winner in all of them. of course those were primarily party hands. now, in my recent db, which doesnt have any party obv, i amd losing slightly over 120k hands.

Re: Are you winning with High Card?
 

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ok so i clicked the magic box and i am now a winner over about 500k hands.

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Actually, i think what you see in those stats depends a lot on site you're playing at. HHs from different sites are processed differently. For instance, when i click that check box, nothing happens for me (Stars database). In Party database, i do become a small winner.

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I looked around for a bit and here's the difference between Stars and Party processor:

On Stars, if the hand did not go to showdown, hand is not present in Misc tab at all.
On Party, if you won the hand without showdown, it goes into whatever category your hand was at the time of opponent folding.

For instance, on Party, I have a hand where i c/r opponent on the turn with K high and he folded. This hand is in "High card" hands, with "show hands which were not folded" tab turned on.
There are no such hands on Stars. No showdown -> hand's not listed.

Re: Are you winning with High Card?
 

Why should high card show a profit?

Aren't there times when you call the flop and turn on a draw and the river goes check/check, with something like 6 high? Isn't this considered "high card"?

Or you bet the turn in position knowing they could easily be peeling the flop with overs; once they call the turn you know your beat , so you check the river?

I don't understand why high card should show a profit.

Re: Are you winning with High Card?
 

On stars I am getting killed with high card. I am down 670bbs over 45K sample. I took high card to SD 372 times and won 19% of that (70 times)

Re: Are you winning with High Card?
 

[censored] no. i can't even win with pairs.

Re: Are you winning with High Card?
 

is there a way to filter this to show hands where you called a bet on the river with high card?

Re: Are you winning with High Card?
 

This is just a useless stat number.

Even if your stat number happens to be green then what does this mean? PT will record the money you made when winning with high card but it is impossible to record the money you lost by folding a winner. So if the pot is $200 and you invested so far $90 and it is $10 to call. If you win with high card then you get +100. If you lose you get -100 and not -10. If you fold a winner then you get 0 (the hand is not even considered b/c you checked the "Show only hands that were not folded" tab) when in fact it should be -200.

So a very weak player who folds too much will be more likely to show a "profit" i.e a green number. And this in fact happens when you play NL where you don't routinely call with high card so this stat is generally green.

I think this stat number is just meaningless. It cannot tell you if you call too much or fold too much because it is based on incomplete info.

Another reason it is not useful: If you call with KQ on a AAT32 board then of course you hand will be recorded in the "one Pair" category although from an analytical point of view it is more helpful to think it as K-hi

Re: Are you winning with High Card?
 

nice post Kap

Re: Are you winning with High Card?
 

I've played about 50K hands at 10/20 and I'm up just over $5K on Party for 'high card'

I go to showdown 39%

Re: Are you winning with High Card?
 

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[censored] no. i can't even win with pairs.

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Me too. Significant loser for both high card and 1-pair on stars.

Significant winner for party (when I check that box).

Waste of time?