Two BB defense hands
 

1. 4-handed Stars 5/10.

Table line-up is me, two tags to my left, and big fish to my right. I am running pretty well here. Both tags are folding a lot to me preflop and I'm playing heads up hands with the fish who constantly check calls, check folds.

First tag folds, OTB tag raises (25/17/2, ATSB ~35%, plays fine and straightforward), fish folds, I defend J7o in the BB.

The flop is 744r and I decide I'm going to check call, check raise. The turn was a 2 and I did it.

I probably haven't done this once over the past 50k hands.

(,)(,) (,)(,) (,)(,) (,)(,) (,)(,) (,)(,) (,)(,) (,)(,) (,)(,)

2. 5-handed Stars 5/10. Same preflop action but now the stealer is 32/15/1.4 with an ATSB of 30%.

This time I have Q9o in the BB and I call his PFR.

Flop is J86r.

Standard check raise?

Re: Two BB defense hands
 

Hand 1)

Are you folding to a turn 3-bet? I am asking b/c I wouldnt know what to do if 3-bet on the turn, so I just c/r the flop and go from there.

Hand 2) Standard flop c/r IMO.

Re: Two BB defense hands
 

1) Wheter to play this fast or slow depends entirely on the players post flop tendencies. How he percieves you, how you percieve him, previous hands etc. If i've been playing back constantly I'd c/r flop. If he's been pushing you around, I like your line. If he fires two barrels 100% of the time here, I like your line.

I would think about this situation in terms of information hiding. What would you do with your hands that miss this flop? Do you think playing back is pointless on this flop caues its such an obvious steal situation, and therefore like peeling? Then c/r turn.
Do you think buttons range is wide enough that you would c/r flop with a large % of your hands to try and resteal? Then c/r flop. Balance your strategy.


In a vacuum it probabily doesn't matter what you do as long as you c/r the flop or the turn. Against most TAGs I think slowplaying till turn is the way to go.

2) Standard flop c/r

Re: Two BB defense hands
 

I haven't done the math but I think the way you played hand one is best because villain bets the turn almost always for us - I'd say 90 - 95%. Out of curiosity, do you just check/call bet/call if an ace or king falls on that turn?

I think hand two is a really standard check raise versus this guy. If villain's the out-of-hand type and/or cannot find folds easily, I think it's an easier check call.

Re: Two BB defense hands
 

I like both hands. I don't wait for the turn too much in #1 because there's a lot of cards that would scare me on the turn (basically any Q,K,A... and who am I kidding any T or 9).

Re: Two BB defense hands
 

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Both tags are folding a lot to me preflop


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I seem to be in the minority here, but I would fold the first hand pre-flop. If the TAGs are folding a lot preflop, they're likely to have something when they get around to raising. Given that you called, I think your ck/c ck/r line is good. It's something you need to do maybe once a session against the right TAG just to keep your opponents in line. Doesn't much matter what cards you have. The 7742 board is a perfect time to try it.

On hands like the second hand, I generally prefer to raise preflop and donk the flop and usually give up if that doesn't bring rain.
SK

Re: Two BB defense hands
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Both tags are folding a lot to me preflop


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I seem to be in the minority here, but I would fold the first hand pre-flop. If the TAGs are folding a lot preflop, they're likely to have something when they get around to raising. Given that you called, I think your ck/c ck/r line is good. It's something you need to do maybe once a session against the right TAG just to keep your opponents in line. Doesn't much matter what cards you have. The 7742 board is a perfect time to try it.

[/ QUOTE ]
They were folding a lot to my steals is what I mean. I only mentioned it to say I was running well (getting respect maybe). Anyway I think this means I don't have to worry too much about being 3-bet by anything worse on the turn. Also the board was 7442 but no big deal.

[ QUOTE ]
On hands like the second hand, I generally prefer to raise preflop and donk the turn and usually give up if that doesn't bring rain.
SK

[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe you misread the action on this one.

Re: Two BB defense hands
 

[ QUOTE ]

Maybe you misread the action on this one.


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No, but I typed turn when I meant flop, and you were quicker than my edit.
SK

Re: Two BB defense hands
 

Reread the action. You want me to 3-bet Q9o preflop and then donk the flop?

Re: Two BB defense hands
 

Hand 1. On this board, the c/c, c/r line is standard for me.

Hand 2. What % of his reasonably tight steal range do you think folds to a flop c/r?

Re: Two BB defense hands
 

If he's on a pure steal he's likely to go away. If he's on Ax or Kx he may go away. If he just calls your flop bet, you still have a chance to hit a useful card on the turn. Otherwise, at least you've established you're liable to reraise when he tries to steal from the button.
SK

Re: Two BB defense hands
 

Hand 1. I play it the same

Hand 2. This isn't a standard c/r for myself unless I think the stealer is a bit of a foldy.

Re: Two BB defense hands
 

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Hand 2. What % of his reasonably tight steal range do you think folds to a flop c/r?

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Dunno because he called the flop c/r and turn bet with 44. Really though I thought he would fold underpairs like this or raggy aces and kings.

Re: Two BB defense hands
 

Hand 1 looks good as long as you can fold to a turn three bet.

Hand 2: I think there is a range of better hands that you can get to fold before the river, so I like it.

Re: Two BB defense hands
 

Was I your villian in hand 1?

Re: Two BB defense hands
 

Not if your stars name is your 2+2 name.

Re: Two BB defense hands
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2. What % of his reasonably tight steal range do you think folds to a flop c/r?

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Dunno because he called the flop c/r and turn bet with 44. Really though I thought he would fold underpairs like this or raggy aces and kings.

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I think it's totally reasonable to think that he folds underpairs to your action. But I also think that there aren't any raggy kings in a 30% steal range and I'm doubtful about the aces too. I could be wrong there but I steal w/ raggy kings rarely and I'll sometimes chuck my raggy aces depending on the blinds and my AtSB is like 38%.
So I really think you're operating in a small window and making a losing play w/ the c/r.
I'd c/c and expect to improve or get a free card often enough to warrant it.

Re: Two BB defense hands
 

I think 30%ers steal any ace, and "raggy" kings on this board are K9 and KT basically. You're right that he probably doesn't steal with any worse kings.

Re: Two BB defense hands
 

Posting blind.

Hand 1: I prefer check/raising the flop against a tag becuz Ax never folds on that board and im not sure how often the tag will fire the turn if you call that flop. I dont like giving the tag a chance to check the turn and showdown cheaply if he has Ax. If you believe the tag will always bet the turn hoping you have two overcards then I think your play is fine.

Hand 2: I would always check/raise that flop against that player.

Results
 

1: TAG calls down c/r with 66. Note this hand is basically ace high on this board. The only question is if he would have bet ace high. Anyway river was a T.
2: As I said before I c/r flop, bet random turn card, checked river, and he checked behind with 44. That was unexpected and good to know.

Re: Results
 

Can somebody give me a solid explanation on why hand 2 is a standard c/r. I sometimes make that move with OESD, and I'm guessing you're doing it here because we have a gutshot + 1 overcard. But it's always a semibluff, right?

We're calling a 3bet and folding an unimproved turn, I assume?

If he just calls, we're leading turn and folding to a raise unless we improve?

I'm starting to incorporate the c/r semibluff in my blind defence play (which sucks atm) and I'd just like to brush up on the fundamentals. Thanks.

Re: Results
 

it seems like u got the idea just fine Wolfram, ur plans for later in the hand are pretty much spot on IMO

Whether or not to check-raise semi-bluff a hand like this largely revolves around a) ur own probable equity and b) ur fold equity vs THIS opponent w/ various hands in his range on this specific board. The idea i think is any spot where the sum is greater than 50%, check-raising is a winning play.

In this short summation i have probably left out the idea of how much u are investing to win how much, and how often it has to work to show a profit and whether that is reasonable against villain's stealing range on this board or not, but these two concepts are rougly the jist of the play.