How to Survive Idiots
 

This may be more of a rant than a question, but I have read all 3 of Dan Harrington's Excellent books....more than once...and consider myself at least an average NL Hold 'em player. I play mostly online at single or 2-table tourneys. On average, I about break-even (up $100, down $100 with $10 buy-ins). I can't seem to get any better results than this because I tend to get crappy cards in general, and I keep running into Fish who are having their one lucky day against me. Today was a case in point and I share this if for no other reason because I'm sure everyone here will nod their heads and go "I've been there...".

It was a single table tourney, and--as I usually do--I got to the bubble (4th place) and was the shortstack. This resulted from insane attrition of the other 5 players who all seemed committed to forking over their chips with all-in moves. In fact, I had only played one hand by the time there were 4 players left (35 was one of my BETTER initial holdings). Anyway, long story made slightly shorter, I got to a point where I had about $1,400 and I was up against the 2nd biggest stack who had around $2,900 I believe. I had A9 unsuited and, it turns out, he had A2 suited. I raised from first position to 3xs the BB (had to make a move at some point) and was called by Mr. A2. The flop came down A68 (in other suits). I made a small bet of $100 and Mr. A2 goes all in. I knew from his previous plays and bluffs that I had him dominated, so I called. Sure enough, I had him dominated (my reads are usually correct), and he pulled a 2 on the river to knock me out. When I asked him why he made the play, he initially said "I had an ace" when I pointed out the stupidity of that reply, and after checking on sharkscope that he had lost $2,800 so far and had an ROI of negative 38%, he gave me the real answer: He earns more than that in one day, so he doesn't really care whether he loses by making stupid plays.

Well, how the heck do you argue with that? I wouldn't be complaining except that this is happening a good 50% of the time in the tournaments I've played (which are now over 500). And it's more frustrating because I look up others' stats and some people have really good profits and ROIs and I yearn to learn their secrets [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Anyway, sorry for the rant. No responses necessary unless you feel like it. I had to get this off my chest. I have learned a lot from this forum and from the books I mentioned. I just wish it actually translated into success more often.

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

tl;dr

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

I see $10 donkNgos, crappy card complaints, etc

Simple solution: move to cash games

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

[ QUOTE ]
I share this if for no other reason because I'm sure everyone here will nod their heads and go "I've been there...".


[/ QUOTE ]

lol

it's called "variance" and we all deal with it

this isn't really that bad btw.

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

From your description, you sound weak tight. You can play your tight game early, but when it gets down to 5 players and the blinds are higher, be more aggressive. People at these levels are donks, yes, so just play your good hands fast.

The "idiots" are what makes this game profitable. And you probably aren't as good as you think you are. Read the strategy forums.

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

Play more, after the 6945th time this happens (as it will) it isn't such a big deal anymore.

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

[ QUOTE ]
tl;dr

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

thank you for your somewhat insulting, yet informative reply. I DO play my good hands "fast" when I get them. Problem is I don't get them that often, and when I do, I always seem to run into exactly the scenario I described, or someone who legitimately has a better hand. Similar scenario occurred the other day when I raised with AQ suited, and got reraised. I got a Q on the flop, and made a bet that got a huge raise from the prior re-raiser. Clearly he was representing KK or AA, and sure enough, that's what he had.

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

[ QUOTE ]
Similar scenario occurred the other day when I raised with AQ suited, and got reraised. I got a Q on the flop, and made a bet that got a huge raise from the prior re-raiser. Clearly he was representing KK or AA, and sure enough, that's what he had.

[/ QUOTE ]
wow, this is great stuff.

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

sax,
what is your sample size? ROI? ITM %age?

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

[ QUOTE ]
tl;dr

[/ QUOTE ]
Is this new internet lingo or forum specific, I can't decipher what it means. My best guess is "Tough Luck; Don't Rant" What does it mean?

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

too long;didn't read

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

saxman, even though you have him dominated, you have to fold so you have a 0% chance of being knocked out. thats how you survive idiots.

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

at the moment, 336 games, -1% ROI, avg. stake, $6, but I've lost (usually on the bubble) 12 out of my last 14, so I was a lot higher a week ago.

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

[ QUOTE ]
at the moment, 336 games, -1% ROI, avg. stake, $6, but I've lost (usually on the bubble) 12 out of my last 14, so I was a lot higher a week ago.

[/ QUOTE ] It sounds like you're running bad. Keep on... keep on truckin.

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

I've tried that strategy of folding....then I usually get blinded out and accused by the better players in this forum of being "weak/tight". [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

You probably dont pushbot enough....try doing more of that.

LOL, donkaments, you didnt even lose any real monies [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

[ QUOTE ]
This may be more of a rant than a question, but I have read all 3 of Dan Harrington's Excellent books....more than once...and consider myself at least an average NL Hold 'em player. I play mostly online at single or 2-table tourneys. On average, I about break-even (up $100, down $100 with $10 buy-ins). I can't seem to get any better results than this because I tend to get crappy cards in general, and I keep running into Fish who are having their one lucky day against me. Today was a case in point and I share this if for no other reason because I'm sure everyone here will nod their heads and go "I've been there...".

It was a single table tourney, and--as I usually do--I got to the bubble (4th place) and was the shortstack. This resulted from insane attrition of the other 5 players who all seemed committed to forking over their chips with all-in moves. In fact, I had only played one hand by the time there were 4 players left (35 was one of my BETTER initial holdings). Anyway, long story made slightly shorter, I got to a point where I had about $1,400 and I was up against the 2nd biggest stack who had around $2,900 I believe. I had A9 unsuited and, it turns out, he had A2 suited. I raised from first position to 3xs the BB (had to make a move at some point) and was called by Mr. A2. The flop came down A68 (in other suits). I made a small bet of $100 and Mr. A2 goes all in. I knew from his previous plays and bluffs that I had him dominated, so I called. Sure enough, I had him dominated (my reads are usually correct), and he pulled a 2 on the river to knock me out. When I asked him why he made the play, he initially said "I had an ace" when I pointed out the stupidity of that reply, and after checking on sharkscope that he had lost $2,800 so far and had an ROI of negative 38%, he gave me the real answer: He earns more than that in one day, so he doesn't really care whether he loses by making stupid plays.

Well, how the heck do you argue with that? I wouldn't be complaining except that this is happening a good 50% of the time in the tournaments I've played (which are now over 500). And it's more frustrating because I look up others' stats and some people have really good profits and ROIs and I yearn to learn their secrets [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Anyway, sorry for the rant. No responses necessary unless you feel like it. I had to get this off my chest. I have learned a lot from this forum and from the books I mentioned. I just wish it actually translated into success more often.

[/ QUOTE ]

Saxman,

I'd like to bring up one point. I'm not much of a tournament player so I don't know how much this will help but remember this. An idiot player will play alot of hands. He will play unconventional hands unconventionally. He has no clue what kind of player you are because he is only playing his cards. He is gonna be in the action regardless of who is in the hand. Most likely they aren't paying attention either.

How do you fight fire....with fire. If the rest of the table is doing the all in move preflop every other hand, consider doing it too. A standard 3x raise with AA isn't going to do any good. That's just a pot sweetner for an action junkie. You need to get the idiots attention with a really big raise.

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

you sound really bad at donkaments. read sttf.

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I share this if for no other reason because I'm sure everyone here will nod their heads and go "I've been there...".


[/ QUOTE ]

lol

it's called "sucking", deal with it

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

[ QUOTE ]
And you probably aren't as good as you think you are.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are you insulting my game? I didn't even post in this thread. What the hell did I ever do to you?

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

tl;dr

i

hate

when

people

dont

use

breaks

in

stupid

long

thread

.

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

First of all, people won't really care in a 10 dollar tourney, move up in tourney's or move to cash games. Second I agree with the others, maybe you need to "Read some more books." because you arn't as good as you think you are. In the second example you raise with A/Q out of position, then when you hit your Q on the flop you bet, and get raised with AA or KK, the person playing the AA or KK played it right, how about you not fall in love with top pair, out of position, facing a reraise preflop, and a huge as you mentioned reraise after the flop. Keep on reading buddy. lol

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

[ QUOTE ]
tl;dr

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do so many people reply with this? If you don't want to read a thread that is not interesting to you, just skip it!

Do you feel the need to reply to every goddamn post on this webpage or something??

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

lol donkamentsss

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
tl;dr

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do so many people reply with this? If you don't want to read a thread that is not interesting to you, just skip it!

Do you feel the need to reply to every goddamn post on this webpage or something??

[/ QUOTE ]

tl;dr [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

[ QUOTE ]
at the moment, 336 games, -1% ROI, avg. stake, $6, but I've lost (usually on the bubble) 12 out of my last 14, so I was a lot higher a week ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok so this basically means that you are due, so move up and you will undoubtedly win MONIEZ.

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

"maybe you need to "Read some more books." because you arn't as good as you think you are. In the second example you raise with A/Q out of position, then when you hit your Q on the flop you bet, and get raised with AA or KK, the person playing the AA or KK played it right, how about you not fall in love with top pair, out of position, facing a reraise preflop, and a huge as you mentioned reraise after the flop. Keep on reading buddy. lol"

In that example, I folded my cards after the raise on the flop. I probably should have folded to the re-raise before the flop, but the person who made it had been aggressive at the table and had re-raised with nothing before and I was getting short-stacked.

Mmy point was that even when I wait for the decent hands to come (such as AQ), I get beaten by a better hand.

Anyway, I'm sure you feel better having insulted me and laughing, so I'll leave it at that. Seems to be a strange arrogance about some of the posters here. Doubt I've seen any of you at the final table of the WSOP....

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

ok so this basically means that you are due, so move up and you will undoubtedly win MONIEZ.

Actually, I just took first place, so maybe the tide is swinging back again....

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

cliff notes...

[ QUOTE ]
Too long didn't read

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Move to cash games

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

Learn to dodge three outers.

Post back.

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

[ QUOTE ]
"maybe you need to "Read some more books." because you arn't as good as you think you are. In the second example you raise with A/Q out of position, then when you hit your Q on the flop you bet, and get raised with AA or KK, the person playing the AA or KK played it right, how about you not fall in love with top pair, out of position, facing a reraise preflop, and a huge as you mentioned reraise after the flop. Keep on reading buddy. lol"

In that example, I folded my cards after the raise on the flop. I probably should have folded to the re-raise before the flop, but the person who made it had been aggressive at the table and had re-raised with nothing before and I was getting short-stacked.

Mmy point was that even when I wait for the decent hands to come (such as AQ), I get beaten by a better hand.

Anyway, I'm sure you feel better having insulted me and laughing, so I'll leave it at that. Seems to be a strange arrogance about some of the posters here. Doubt I've seen any of you at the final table of the WSOP....

[/ QUOTE ]

That arrogance as you put it, is coming from the younger folks on this board who still live with their mommy & daddy. They aren't old enough to get into a casino & don't have the mental fortitude to come up with original, thoughful responses that might add to the discussion.

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

You are playing at too low a limit. The players here don't know enough to respect your raises. I suggest moving up to the higher levels where they do. Watch the mad cash roll in.

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

[ QUOTE ]
you sound really bad at donkaments. read sttf.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

or just play cash games. That way when you get hit with a run of bad cards the blinds aren't escalating and destroying your stack. I used to be in the same boat complaining about the same [censored] until I moved over to cash games. Now not only do I make money (even if its miniscule compared to some people on the board) but I have noticed a HUGE improvement in my game.

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

[ QUOTE ]
or just play cash games. That way when you get hit with a run of bad cards the blinds aren't escalating and destroying your stack. I used to be in the same boat complaining about the same [censored] until I moved over to cash games. Now not only do I make money (even if its miniscule compared to some people on the board) but I have noticed a HUGE improvement in my game.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's very interesting, actually, because when I first started playing about a year ago, I started with the cash games and just got my ass kicked left, right and sideways. It spooked me, to be honest. Seemed like every hand someone (other than me) had the nuts. If I got a flush, someone had a full house. If I had a full house, someone had a higher full house. My fear with cash games is you potentially find yourself up against people who really don't care if they lose the money (it's pocket change to them) so they have no fear going all in on a draw or something. But I may take another stab at it, since I have improved a little in the past year [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

Not all in on a draw, whatever will we do??????

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

"Learn to dodge three outers."

sorry, but what's a "three outer"?

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
or just play cash games. That way when you get hit with a run of bad cards the blinds aren't escalating and destroying your stack. I used to be in the same boat complaining about the same [censored] until I moved over to cash games. Now not only do I make money (even if its miniscule compared to some people on the board) but I have noticed a HUGE improvement in my game.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's very interesting, actually, because when I first started playing about a year ago, I started with the cash games and just got my ass kicked left, right and sideways. It spooked me, to be honest. Seemed like every hand someone (other than me) had the nuts. If I got a flush, someone had a full house. If I had a full house, someone had a higher full house. My fear with cash games is you potentially find yourself up against people who really don't care if they lose the money (it's pocket change to them) so they have no fear going all in on a draw or something. But I may take another stab at it, since I have improved a little in the past year [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

this is gold right here^^^

no fear, no fear at all i tell ya!!!! hyachahahchachahcha

Re: How to Survive Idiots
 

Harrington's books don't really do it for sngs.

Get SNGPT, learn to pushbot correctly in the later stages of the tourney. You probably should have folded or pushed preflop. Also, betting t100 into a t650 pot is bad.