NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

He is tight and very aggressive. Runs 19/16/3 or something. This is the first time I reraise him (or notice that he is at my table). Note that we are 200bb deep.

Full Tilt Poker
$2/$4 No Limit Hold'em Ring Game
4 Players
LegoPoker Hand Converter

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
Hero (SB): $887.1
BB: $396
UTG: $82.20
balugawhale: $835

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($6, 4 players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">balugawhale raises to $14</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $46</font>, BB folds, balugawhale calls $32

<font color="black">Flop:</font> 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($96, 2 players)
Hero checks, balugawhale checks

<font color="black">Turn:</font> 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]] ($96, 2 players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $64</font>, <font color="red">balugawhale raises to $288</font>, Hero...?

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

i would fold, he always struck me as a nit.

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

IMO his checkbehind on the flop makes it improbable he has a mid pocket pair thru JJ that is not a set.

I think its a spot where he would have outs if you are ahead (maybe FD or whatever) and would have AA/KK/set when you are behind.

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

curious as to why we check the flop and make smallish river bet here. imo, it complicates decision making process, since now we look sort of weak, so this opponent--a thinking, aggro one in my limited exp. with him--may be trying to push us off what he suspects as AK/AQ sort of hand (esp. now that board has paired). I bet out flop to find out where I'm at. as played, 200BB deep, i fold.

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

Why not bet flop?

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

this was an interesting hand.

I was surprised by what you did.

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

I'd bet the flop.
As played, this is an obvious push; I don't see how you can fold here.

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

Don't understand why you didn't bet flop. This is one that missed him most of the time.

As played, I'm folding the turn now. I think c/c turn might be better than betting since you gave up the flop, re-eval river but probably c/c there too since you made yourself look so weak.

Also this deep I like a bigger 3bet preflop being oop.

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

btw

3betting pf and then checking this flop gives away your hand pretty much entirely.

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

[ QUOTE ]
btw

3betting pf and then checking this flop gives away your hand pretty much entirely.

[/ QUOTE ]

how ?

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

on this flop he is rarely, if ever, c/f air.

If he has a medium strength hand that doesnt want to get it all in, he probably mixes up betting flop and c/c flop. When he checked I felt like 90% sure he was c/c with a hand like JJ or QQ.

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

[ QUOTE ]
on this flop he is rarely, if ever, c/f air.

If he has a medium strength hand that doesnt want to get it all in, he probably mixes up betting flop and c/c flop. When he checked I felt like 90% sure he was c/c with a hand like JJ or QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess so

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

[ QUOTE ]
on this flop he is rarely, if ever, c/f air.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you consider that you are 200bb deep and more importantly he knows you are a solid 2p2er in this read?

Good read fwiw

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

[ QUOTE ]

Did you consider that you are 200bb deep and more importantly he knows you are a solid 2p2er in this read?

[/ QUOTE ]
I felt like, on this board, he would cbet and shut down if called with air. If he has AK and he is called, he still probably has outs on the turn.

I also felt like if he wanted a big pot he would've bet the flop (if he did, he would've probably gotten a big pot)

So, when he checked, I was almost positive it was a c/c and thus checked behind with my 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Did you consider that you are 200bb deep and more importantly he knows you are a solid 2p2er in this read?

[/ QUOTE ]
I felt like, on this board, he would cbet and shut down if called with air. If he has AK and he is called, he still probably has outs on the turn.

I also felt like if he wanted a big pot he would've bet the flop (if he did, he would've probably gotten a big pot)

So, when he checked, I was almost positive it was a c/c and thus checked behind with my 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
damn fine play

i'm scared of 400NL [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

[ QUOTE ]
btw

3betting pf and then checking this flop gives away your hand pretty much entirely.

[/ QUOTE ] Not entirely. You must at least think I can have a ten, which must be why you did not fire the river.

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

[ QUOTE ]

i'm scared of 400NL [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

I'd bet the flop, and probably check the turn. If he raises flop then that is just a tough spot, but you probably have to give it to him unless you have interesting history.

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not entirely. You must at least think I can have a ten, which must be why you did not fire the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't think you had a T, I just pussied out on the river. I should've pushed, my read was to push, but I played it like a biatch.

you fold to a river push, right?

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

i think the river raise looks stronger than a push. push smells like fd.

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not entirely. You must at least think I can have a ten, which must be why you did not fire the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't think you had a T, I just pussied out on the river. I should've pushed, my read was to push, but I played it like a biatch.

you fold to a river push, right?

[/ QUOTE ] I checked the river with no idea what to do if you bet. That was a big part of why I posted this hand. You're right that I would probably fold, though. After agonizing for 20 seconds or so. I was very surprised you didn't bet the river when I saw your hand.

We have talked too much now, so I might as well tell people the results. I called and checked the offsuit A on the river with about a pot sized bet left in stacks. He checked behind with 9s8s.

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

lol @ baluga being a nit.

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

This is why playing this tricky on the flop by not c-betting, undervaluing your hand can make it very difficult on later streets....I would bet this flop 99% of the time.

Would you normally bet this flop? And if so why didn't you bet it here??

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

[ QUOTE ]
Would you normally bet this flop? And if so why didn't you bet it here??

[/ QUOTE ] Yes, I would bet this flop some % of the time that is higher than 50. I felt like checking this time.

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

Baluga, if he bet out here would you make a semibluff or call/float/draw?

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

checking the flop = el terrible. You make your hand impossible to play, as evidenced by the turn.

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

baluga,

did you think he would call with JJ/QQ if you have of shoved the river?

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

[ QUOTE ]
checking the flop = el terrible. You make your hand impossible to play, as evidenced by the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

checking the flop is not terrible by any means, results oriented thinking is not something to get into.

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

[ QUOTE ]
checking the flop = el terrible. You make your hand impossible to play, as evidenced by the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
LOC: moving to 10/20nl

yum yum.

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
checking the flop = el terrible. You make your hand impossible to play, as evidenced by the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
LOC: moving to 10/20nl

yum yum.

[/ QUOTE ]

what site!!!!

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

[ QUOTE ]

on this flop he is rarely, if ever, c/f air.

If he has a medium strength hand that doesnt want to get it all in, he probably mixes up betting flop and c/c flop. When he checked I felt like 90% sure he was c/c with a hand like JJ or QQ.


[/ QUOTE ]

if this is true, its almost criminal not to shove the river, especially when it's a big beautiful ace.

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
checking the flop = el terrible. You make your hand impossible to play, as evidenced by the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

checking the flop is not terrible by any means, results oriented thinking is not something to get into.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, this is the 3rd time in a few days that you've posted some interesting opinions on hands, but failed to give your reasoning. It's apparent that many of us here (myself included) think that checking this flop is terrible, can you please explain why you think checking this flop is the right play?

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

on this flop he is rarely, if ever, c/f air.

If he has a medium strength hand that doesnt want to get it all in, he probably mixes up betting flop and c/c flop. When he checked I felt like 90% sure he was c/c with a hand like JJ or QQ.


[/ QUOTE ]

if this is true, its almost criminal not to shove the river, especially when it's a big beautiful ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
checking the flop = el terrible. You make your hand impossible to play, as evidenced by the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

checking the flop is not terrible by any means, results oriented thinking is not something to get into.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, this is the 3rd time in a few days that you've posted some interesting opinions on hands, but failed to give your reasoning. It's apparent that many of us here (myself included) think that checking this flop is terrible, can you please explain why you think checking this flop is the right play?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was speaking with Baluga and I check the flop with AK a lot, this means that if I check with AK then I have to check with other hands. I think it's still better to do so as we will often have AK here, about the same amount as we have pairs that we may wish to double barrel. If we choose to bet AK everytime then it leaves us double barrelling a lot of boards etc.

With hands like QQ / TT that we don't have 3 streets of value and often not even 2 streets of value then checking on pretty safe boards is fine as it will not only give us the chance to maybe bet the turn and the river but also balance out our range so we get free cards with other hands.

When we have the best hand, our opponents equity usually diminishes on the turn and adopting a flop check line allows us to take advantage of this.

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

Baluga: if your read is that he's checking flop to check-call, did you consider firing flop *and* turn? Or do you believe that he's planning to check-call both?

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

All-

I already said that in retrospect I should've pushed the river. He really can't call with JJ or QQ, which I felt made up most of his range. I was actually somewhat afraid of AA when the A came, but I suppose that is MUBS.

Checking the flop is fine with QQ here provided you do it with other holdings. True is right-- if you mix up your bet/check % on the flop you make your hand tough to read. However, I didn't think that wtfsvi would check air here. I also was pretty sure he would call my flop bet, so rather than committing to bet two streets on a draw, I thought I'd take a free chance at hitting and then make a turn move.

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

I don't know what BW is repping...

In pos. if he bets flop, his range is wide and can include sets/overpairs/draws/air/etc.

Given flop action, what is he repping on the turn? I think that there are few combinations of Tens out there (maybe T9s or something like that). I would assume he would bet the flop with pot building hands like sets and such w. the stack sizes. And his turn raise is inconsistent with the flop check with a hand that has decent showdown value (ie. 99 or something).

Re: NL$400, overpair against balugawhale
 

overpairs are the nuts. push.