Is this bet horrible?
 

The turn card is one of the worst that can come, and I still bet it. C/f river because I can't beat anything.
MP1 is LAG as far as I can tell.

Party Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.50/$1
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is UTG+1 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, 4 folds.


Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (7.5SB, 3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, MP3 folds.


Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4.75BB, 2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls.


River: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6.75BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to MP1.


Results:
Final pot: 6.75BB

Re: Is this bet horrible?
 

I don't like the fold to the river bet. He may have been observant enough to realize that the Q and J scared you. If you are going to check, at least call. Sometimes you can bet the river and get MP1 to fold. If you do bet the river and he raises, then you could most likely fold.

Re: Is this bet horrible?
 

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Sometimes you can bet the river and get MP1 to fold

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this is pretty silly, what has he got that you want to fold? Q or J will not fold here. maybe something like A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T will fold. but not much else. i dont think this is a b/f situtation.

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If you are going to check, at least call

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i cant find anything that a c/c is correct against. A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7/3? 88 or less? some weird busted gutshot like Kx? 9x?

dont tell me that this is actually a c/f river... [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Is this bet horrible?
 

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He may have been observant enough to realize that the Q and J scared you. If you are going to check, at least call.

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I can't think of many villain hands that would call the flop and turn against a preflop raiser that we could beat on the river. He would have to have a hand like SPP/xT/A7/K7 + BDF or virtually bluffing a good percentage of the time; given the action, I don't think this is too likely.

Re: Is this bet horrible?
 

[ QUOTE ]
dont tell me that this is actually a c/f river... [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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I wasn't saying to check-fold (unless you are saying that you should do this here.)

I just meant that if you continue to show aggression, by betting, your opponent may give up and fold. I guess what I want to know is that if check-folding is correct here, why bet the turn?

Re: Is this bet horrible?
 

Bad river check-fold.

Turn bet is fine.

Re: Is this bet horrible?
 

Is this a good bet in the sense that is is a bluff, because as I said, the card that hurts my hand more are not many...

Re: Is this bet horrible?
 

im saying i think it might be a c/f.

you can bet the turn and c/f the river because the J completes some hands that you were infront of on the turn, many in the villans range (AK,AJ,KJ,T9) reducing the overall range of hands you are infront of.

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by betting, your opponent may give up and fold


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like i said in my last post, villan is not giving up anything that you beat that he called the turn with (exception being something like K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T).

ill wait and see what the pro's bring out on this one. this is what you get when you post during australian daytime and US night time, half-ass responses from me.

Re: Is this bet horrible?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the fold to the river bet. He may have been observant enough to realize that the Q and J scared you. If you are going to check, at least call. Sometimes you can bet the river and get MP1 to fold. If you do bet the river and he raises, then you could most likely fold.

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What you should have disliked was the turn bet. Two overcards on a 3-flush board should be enough to make you give up on an underpair. Without reads there is no reason to put any more money in this pot. OP showed aggression with the pre-flop raise and c-bet and got called, led the turn and got called, the only chance we have in this hand would require a read we don't have. You are advocating betting AND calling with 4th pair on a 3 flush 3 straight board. Again, without a read that is bad. At the micros aggression without cards is spew.

Re: Is this bet horrible?
 

Check-fold turn and river. The possibility that villain might be willing to bluff is irrelevant, because he would have to have a hand worse than yours in the first place.

Re: Is this bet horrible?
 

i don't put any more money in after the turn card falls.

Re: Is this bet horrible?
 

[quoteI just meant that if you continue to show aggression, by betting, your opponent may give up and fold.

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Gove some examples of hands that he called the PFR with and was prepared to come this far into the hand with, and that he is then going to fold for one RB?

Re: Is this bet horrible?
 

O.K., I've been looking at this hand more and I think I was wrong about it initially. The turn card alone is bad enough, given the fact that he called you on the flop, to make me want to check-fold. It's just hard to imagine him having A7 or K7 or J7 (or a similar hand) often enough, and I'm drawing to less than 2 outs against the rest of his range.

But in looking over the hand, I'm actually wondering whether the flop bet is any good either. Do we think we'll get value from a 7 here? Doesn't seem likely. How many turn cards are there than we'll actually want to see? It seems to me that there are a lot that won't make us happy.

So, how often do we think we take it down here? The board is pretty coordinated, has a card in the "playing zone" higher than our pair, we're out of position, and the pot is large enough that our opponents will want to call. Basically, I'm questioning whether it's worthwhile to semi-bluff in this spot. Thoughts?

Re: Is this bet horrible?
 

[ QUOTE ]
So, how often do we think we take it down here? The board is pretty coordinated, has a card in the "playing zone" higher than our pair, we're out of position, and the pot is large enough that our opponents will want to call. Basically, I'm questioning whether it's worthwhile to semi-bluff in this spot. Thoughts?

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We have the best hand a ton of the time on the flop, and I'm not in the mood to give free cards. I'm c-betting here, but it doesn't mean I'm wedded to the hand if things go sideways (which they did).