Staying off tilt
 

Recently posted in the beginners about for advice about staying off tilt. One of the replies suggested posting here. Thought I might want to put a little background into this and see if anyone can come up with some helpful suggestions.

First off I find myself goning on tilt after taking two or three bad beats while at a table. One I usually shrug off as part of the game. I will also go on tilt from the mistakes I have made i.e. over playing high pockets, paying off a river flush/straight.

In my non poker life I have expert mental control. I am a staff sergent in the USMC with commmand over a rifle infintary squad(as military commands go bout as small as they get). I was also trainded how to deal with pressure situations and how to react in a calm, cool, thinking manner.

So I guess my question is this why am I not able to apply my training to a poker table?

Re: Staying off tilt
 

one thing that helps me is staying within my bank roll... that way when a bad beat or a bad play owns me its not as much of a sting... what's your bank roll/what limits or buy ins are you playing?

Re: Staying off tilt
 

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In my non poker life I have expert mental control. I am a staff sergent in the USMC with commmand over a rifle infintary squad(as military commands go bout as small as they get). I was also trainded how to deal with pressure situations and how to react in a calm, cool, thinking manner.

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I am sure you will agree expert is not the same as perfect. The question is why are you so controlled in your military life vs poker? I might suggest first is constant training and reinforcement. Second is the reward of being so disciplined. Of course the negative of not being disciplined could cause results as bad as death to you or others or the cause you fight for. Being more disciplined is a trait that is held high in your world so the emotional desire to be more disciplined is high.

For most anti tilt is created by constant training and reinforcement. The best poker players will look at discipline the same way you do. It's a pride issue to say I can control myself when others don't. The reward is emotional and of course money. If those rewards become bigger than the pain of discipline you will be an expert in control in poker too.

I thank you for your service

Re: Staying off tilt
 

at the poker table, your thoughts and feelings are usually secret. you dont have anybody to share the pain, shame, embarrassment, or anger with. tehrefore the thoughts/feelings stay with you longer.

the fact that you can not control the cards and others' play can magnify these feelings and cause poor decision making. "he sucked out a straight, why cant i?"
"figures the straight didnt hit for me."

with non-poker conflicts, you can re-assume control of situations by changing the approach or the environment. you can make yourself feel better afterwards by talking about/repremanding those who made mistakes etc.

if you sense tilt, try changing your approach. go to sleep, play monsters and make laying down a hand become easy.

try changing your environment by changing games or going for a walk/grabbing something to eat before returning to the table.

make a list of your own coping skills and bring those skills to the table. the best way to deal with the problem is to keep talking about it and taking responsibility for your poor decision making until you see a change. take care. -mj

Re: Staying off tilt
 

I agree that expert is not the same as perfect, but wherever emotion is involved I have found there is no perfection. Training and dicipline are two things that fall right into my wheelhouse.

Can I ask how anyone trained themselves to stay off tilt?

Re: Staying off tilt
 

i think it's funny that you've find a way to proclaim yourself an expert and a commander at every opportunity

the game requires humility

there is no course in anti-tilt

Re: Staying off tilt
 

think of it this way

when you do a live-fire exercise, you generally expect the rounds that your squad fires to land within a specified, predictable arc

now imagine that every third round fired by every single squad member goes off 90 degrees to the right

your squad is no longer making effective suppressive fire and the plan comes apart

this is poker

Re: Staying off tilt
 

Most players I see have two games. The game they play when they are winning or have won, and the game they play when they've been losing or have lost. In reality, your game should be based on table conditions and opponant rather then you've been running bad/good.

Tilt is synonomous with losing -- but if you step back and think you'll realize that people on tilt can also be winning and even winning huge. The tilt doesn't matter because the deck is hitting them.

So, with that in mind and you want to stay off tilt, make your game consistent, but not to the point of being predictable. If you wouldn't play a hand a certain way when you are winning, don't play it that way when you are losing and vice versa. You have to believe and have faith that each hand you play and how you play it against a given set of table conditions has profitability in the long run, until you find out or discover otherwise, then of course adapt.

Once you lose heart or faith in a given session, quit play and come back when you can play more confidently.

Re: Staying off tilt
 

so far the best strategies I have found for myself are:
1. STAY IN YOUR BANKROLL
There is a huge amount of stress, that you might not even notice, when each decision is so important. Stress causes the body to shutdown a lot of resource hogging functions, including your ability to use logic. Of course the only way to learn this lesson is the hard way...usually a few times

2. Don't play when your tired
Again, you're logical mind will be functioning at less than capacity, and you will also have less control of your emotions. This also means getting a lot of excersize, so you won't be tired, although you're a marine so you're probably in shape.

3. Don't play hungry
Same thing as above, without nutrition (think running without anything in the stomach) you're functioning at less than optimum.

4. Learn to play well -- I'd suggest cardrunners or pokerxfactor. If you're not good, you're going to go on tilt when you make newbish mistakes. No cure for that except learning to play.

Re: Staying off tilt
 

make sure you don't express your anger in any way. that means don't punch the wall, slam your mouse down, etc. Act calm to be calm. Slow down your breathing, turn on some relaxing music, maybe even sit out a few hands and just close your eyes and chill. it works wonders.

Re: Staying off tilt
 

I have had problems with tilt as well and during tilt I turn into loose aggressive maniac type of player [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I have noticed that when tilting I really don't give much thought to my decisions to call/bet/raise/fold/check, but rather take the action based on impulses. This of course leads to wrong decisions.

The way I plan to improve this is to force my self to think rationally also when running bad. To do this I need to improve the visibility of my decision making (this is something Alan N. Schoonmaker talked in his book if I remember correctly).

In practice I have decided to record my next sessions (e.g. with camtasia) and also record some commentary on why I played the hands the way I played them (something like in stoxtrader vidoes).

Hopefully this leads to following things:
i) The role of the commentor helps me to control my emotions
ii) it's easier for me review the hands afterwards when I can see the thinking behind my decisions
iii) this enables me to focus on specific hand and how to play it rather than the emotions caused by bad beats

After running bad it's hard for me to review my play and admit mistakes. I think this should also make the reviewing process easier and give better holistic view on my play.

So, this might something to try out...

Re: Staying off tilt
 

Have realistic expectations.

Re: Staying off tilt
 

I tend to find my worst tilting is on the turn or river.

SO, i tighten up pf, this helps me hugely.

Of course, i also have a rule that i am allowed to raise pf any playable hand at a table of tighties, am allowed to cbet in position, but must fold to a raise, and am only allowed to continue if i have CORRECT odds to do so.

THis has helped my nlhe tourney game well.

I go aggro after the little pots, and immediately back off when i feel the FIRST bit of resistance.

Question for the army dude- WHat would you say to me if i turned up in the mess hall with my m16 loaded, safety off, and a couple of pins not in my grenades?

Well, I would suggest that if you consider the simple starting hand rules as set in stone as your weapons safety handling manuals, you are going to be safe.

If you proceed on the flop like ones military should in battle, calm, prepared, and with firepower and backup, then you should come out ahead.

SO, why not think of bluffing a calling station the equivilent of wearing a yellow and pink lycra bodysuit into the jungles instead of camoflague greens

You get the idea, you already know what you should be doing, but its more fun to play all the time isnt it?

Any one multitable? I found with 2 games going, i go better, because i dont play the trap hands, the minimally profitable ones that dont matter either way.

Just my 2c worth

Re: Staying off tilt
 

For the reccord, I also have been trying to work on my tilt factor. I seem to go tilt always online, but never in B&M. I suppose because I know I'm being watched in B&M. No one is going to see me slam a mouse down and scream [censored] online. I believe I have improved somewhat, but I do get very angry when for example... the other night some DONKEY on my left kept trying to outplay me with pure garbage, and won 20 of 20 pots. Very large pots mind you, by rediculous runner runners.. busted sets to crazy backdoor flushes & straights.. AA KK and QQ always cracked! Not because he had a hand mind you, he just wanted to try to BLUFF me out, despite it never really worked.

This sort of scenario always makes me cringe and put doubts into my head as to what the hell I'm even doing. Sometimes a donkey just has you owned all session long and there is nothing you seem to be able to do about it.

What I DON'T do is type "nice river", or "Nice catch" which seems to be the norm. Something I remember Leaderer mentioning... never let a person know they got under your skin, it's best to show no emotion at all. That way they don't get that satisfaction out of you.

Re: Staying off tilt
 

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never let a person know they got under your skin, it's best to show no emotion at all. That way they don't get that satisfaction out of you.

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Good one.

AB

Re: Staying off tilt
 

Why not say nice river, and keep encouraging their cruddy plays?

If you berate them, and they improve, you will be embarrassing them into playing better!

Re: Staying off tilt
 

I wish I knew the answer. I quite commonly build up a nice stack, take a couple of bad beats or a calling station or maniac join the table, throw me off my game and I end up make and calling big bets with air. This either leads to a very large or very small stack. Once my stack gets down to 1/3 of the buyin I might as well give it away since I am guaranteed to lose the rest in short time.

The closest I have got to controlling it is to rebuy if I lose much and to revert to nut peddling and making notes on people until I calm down. This works out better than what I otherwise do which is opening 3 more tables and playing like a monkey on acid.

Re: Staying off tilt
 

err... poker is a game of 90% luck and 10% skill in the short term. This is probably why even supposedly "strong disciplined" individuals can't handle it. Because they are often punished despite their "superior" abilities, which is not the result they expect. they expect to be rewarded everytime they make the "correct" play.

Re: Staying off tilt
 

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they are often punished despite their "superior" abilities, which is not the result they expect. they expect to be rewarded everytime they make the "correct" play.

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this feeling can only be likened to your dog getting hit by a car.

Re: Staying off tilt
 

i used to be the world worst player for going on tilt - after a bad session i would lose hundreds of dollars on blackjack tables to try an win my money back.

The way i cured tilt to the point where i never tilt anymore is i lost nearly half my bankroll on 1 hand of blackjack. The feeling when i did this i cannot describe, but in a sick way i'm glad i did it as i never tilt anymore and in the long run because of this i have made money.

I obviously wouldn't recommend this, but as a last resort i needed to hit rock bottom to cure myself of this.