My river play still sucks
 

Despite having numerous holes in my game I've decided to take a stab at $1/$2 (anyone with any tips for the changes at this level please feel free to fire my way). Anyway, I'm still trying to work at my river play, so I wondered, is this a clear value bet on the river?

I have no reads on villain so assume he is a typical $1/$2 player... If it a bet & I am c/r'd here do I spew, call down & make a note, or fold?

Prima Poker skin
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
8 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG calls, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, 4 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5.5SB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls.

Turn: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4.75BB, 2 players)
UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls.

River: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6.75BB, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

Results:
Final pot: 6.75BB

Re: My river play still sucks
 

IMO we can value bet here. He could hold some middle pair or a K with a lower kicker and feel like he should call it. Sure he could have hit the A and be trying to trap you for 2 but I don't think so. I think he would most likely have bet out if he hit an A.I think you are good here more than 55%. Bet the river.

Re: My river play still sucks
 

i think this is an easy bet. Judging by villians flop donk bet, he is more likely to have bet out his A hereI would think you are more likely up against a smaller pp than Ax.

If c/r you could fold but that is a major problem for my gameso easier said than done

Re: My river play still sucks
 

IF the game was a tight game, and everybody is playing smart, i check this river too and see KQ often. In a looser game, you need to bet the river. what happens then is the hard part. If he is a bluffer, he will like to bluff at this A, if he will only raise with big hands, or his showdown stats are good, you could consider bet/fold. Most river check raises at 1/2 mean business.

Isolating and unknown utg limper with KJo is ballsy. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: My river play still sucks
 

Bet/fold the river.

Re: My river play still sucks
 

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this is an easy bet

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Re: My river play still sucks
 

Bet-take pot river

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Re: My river play still sucks
 

I know we don't have one, but if we had a read on villain that he is aggressive, I'd wait to raise him on the turn. The only thing I'd worry about is KQ. A lot of players still open limp this from EP. I used to before recognizing it as a hand I don't want to play multiway.

If it was a very aggressive villain that was capable of folding to a raise, then I'd just call every street he bet, and then bet if he didn't. That way we get max value out of him.

Raise the turn, bet the river.

Re: My river play still sucks
 

Yeah turn raise + river bet is standard for me, especially since I seldom raise the flop with OC's.

Re: My river play still sucks
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah turn raise + river bet is standard for me, especially since I seldom raise the flop with OC's.

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Re: My river play still sucks
 

[ QUOTE ]
turn raise + river bet

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This is interesting, so assuming villain is aggressive enough to fire again here we wait till the turn to raise because:

1) there is no obvious draw out there;
2) if our hand is ahead it will stay ahead;
3) we extract more when we are ahead (which we probably are);
4) it adds an element of disguise for those times that we decide to raise the turn with o/c (I can't even begin to think when I would be doing this);

Re: My river play still sucks
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
turn raise + river bet

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This is interesting, so assuming villain is aggressive enough to fire again here we wait till the turn to raise because:

1) there is no obvious draw out there;
2) if our hand is ahead it will stay ahead;
3) we extract more when we are ahead (which we probably are);
4) it adds an element of disguise for those times that we decide to raise the turn with o/c (I can't even begin to think when I would be doing this);

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A#1: We make more money. I can tell you I learned the waiting to "raise the turn" play the hard way. Other players were doing it to me all the damn time and I was getting sick of it. Eventually I started to employ it myself and find ways to avoid it vs. those who I knew did it to me.

An important note is that you don't want to wait unless the following factors are true:

1)Your hand isn't that vulnerable to the turn card. (Very strong dual draws or a low top pair are not times to use this.)
2) You have 2 or less opponents in the hand with you. There are probably very few times I wait for the turn if there are more than one villain on the flop. I prefer to take one out there if I can. My hand would need to be crushing and I'd want great relative position on the bettor to get as many bets as possible on the turn to wait.

The opportunity to do this comes up multiple times a session, especially in aggressive games where the pot is actually SH after the flop. It all starts adding up to your roll and your results improve nicely.