Second nuts facing river raise in $0.50/$1 PLO
 

Reads on opponent - Only hand I've noticed was a pre-flop all-in with A-A-x-x v A-A-x-x which he doubled up on after hitting some nonsense like trip 7s.

Can't find a Full Tilt Omaha HH Converter but I'll do my best to keep it tidy...

Full Tilt Poker Game #1377429270: Table Heber (6 max) - $0.50/$1 - Pot Limit Omaha - 1:34:23 ET - 2006/12/09
<font color="red">Seat 1: thesilkworm ($122.70)</font>
Seat 2: JoAnnV ($108.05)
Seat 4: CodeStah ($248.55)
Seat 6: IUnderscoreSuck ($155.30)
IUnderscoreSuck posts the small blind of $0.50
<font color="red">thesilkworm posts the big blind of $1</font>
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
<font color="red">Dealt to thesilkworm [4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]]</font>
JoAnnV folds
CodeStah calls $1
IUnderscoreSuck calls $0.50
<font color="red">thesilkworm checks</font>
*** FLOP *** [3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]]
IUnderscoreSuck checks
<font color="red">thesilkworm bets $1.50</font>
CodeStah calls $1.50
IUnderscoreSuck calls $1.50
*** TURN *** [3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] [4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]]
IUnderscoreSuck checks
<font color="red">thesilkworm bets $2</font>
CodeStah calls $2
IUnderscoreSuck folds
*** RIVER *** [3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]] [7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]]
<font color="red">thesilkworm bets $5.75</font>
CodeStah raises to $28.75
thesilkworm has 15 seconds left to act

My play on earlier streets probably isn't great, but I'm not interested in that for now. Let's just discuss my decision here...

Fold - obviously not

So call or raise, and if raise, how much?

Ok, I don't think he's bluffing - people pot raising the river with nothing is so rare in these games.

I also don't think he's stupid enough to do this with the nut flush

That leaves 3-3 (if he's really really loose and I strongly doubted he held this), 8-8 (only one combination of as I have an 8), 5c-6c (one combination of obviously) and 7-7. The trouble with 7-7 is "why has he made it to the river?" He can only have 7-7 if he had some kind of other draw.

Anyway, what's your move? I've heard so many stories about the second nuts in Omaha not being all that great. I'm not really an Omaha player and would like to hear what some experts have to say.

Re: Second nuts facing river raise in $0.50/$1 PLO
 

This is an insta raise, if he had 56c go post in bbv about it.

Unless you have like 500BB you shouldnt even consider thoughts of him having u beat

Re: Second nuts facing river raise in $0.50/$1 PLO
 

do you even realize that you had quads here? If he shows you 5c6c, then so be it. you need to be willing to go broke here

Re: Second nuts facing river raise in $0.50/$1 PLO
 

I rarely heard somone talking about quads as second nuts, but you are right, you can be beaten. raise max nonetheless.

Re: Second nuts facing river raise in $0.50/$1 PLO
 

lolol fold and wait for a better spot.













seriously raise max. lol

Re: Second nuts facing river raise in $0.50/$1 PLO
 

Eh.... can't fault your thought process, but just calling here is quite weak. Flop and turn are good.

Re: Second nuts facing river raise in $0.50/$1 PLO
 

Flop - pot it
Turn - love the c/c
River - small lead out bet has induced the rr, thats what we wanted right? Now I'm shoving my chips, house, car, whatever i can get in the middle. If he has 56c I guess he went to church today.

Re: Second nuts facing river raise in $0.50/$1 PLO
 

Cosndering these limits, you are going to be raised here with all sorts of trash full-houses and even the Ace-high flush times. Push push push.

Re: Second nuts facing river raise in $0.50/$1 PLO
 

thread has no purpose, obv raise pot, enjoy your winnings

Re: Second nuts facing river raise in $0.50/$1 PLO
 

Easy fold

Re: Second nuts facing river raise in $0.50/$1 PLO
 

I've played with Codestah quite alot and in my experience he doesnt tend to pot rivers without holding a pretty good hand. However, he's done a few crazy things against me and i think he tends to overvalue FH's so im pretty sure im putting as much money in here as possible. (zeebo theorem still applies in omaha in my experience)

Re: Second nuts facing river raise in $0.50/$1 PLO
 

I reraise the pot on the river. Is it possible he has 56 clubs? Sure it is- but its also possible he has a full house or a flush.

I'd feel sick if he had the straight flush, but I would go broke with this hand all day long. Its a positive EV move.

Re: Second nuts facing river raise in $0.50/$1 PLO
 

You're 120 BB's deep and you're thinking of calling the river with Quads. It's not a bad thing to see monsters under the bed in Omaha b/c you have to fold alot of good made hands, but Bro don't start believing there are always monsters this big hiding under there.

At this level, you will see 3's full, 8's full, 7's full, and even Ace high flushes or worse way too many times to even consider just calling here.

Get it in on the river here and if he has 5c6c, which he obv. does or you wouldn't have posted it, then chuckle to yourself about your bad luck and go post it in BBV.

Re: Second nuts facing river raise in $0.50/$1 PLO
 

This does remind me of a live 10-25 omaha hand. I flopped an open ended straight flush- but the flop also had a pair on the board.

The flop was 10d8d8s... i had 7d9d. There was heavy pre-flop action and I was facing a 600 dollar bet on the flop. There was 1 caller, so I essentially was getting 2 to 1 on my money. I was considering raising, but I had to assume they both had a hand.

I had a 3000 dollar stack so I had to figure someone had an 8 and threw my open ended straight flush draw away. Risking 20% of my stack on 2 outer isnt a very good play.

As it turned out- one guy had trip 8's with an ace kicker. And one guy had 10's full. The river gave me a straight flush! Damn I was kicking myself for not gambling, but it was a case of making the right laydown at the wrong time. I would have nearly tripled up.

The point is- the odds of making such a big hand as quads in omaha is rare. The 2nd nuts in this case is almost always good. I mean people with the big full house go broke to quads way more often than quads going broke to straight flushes. And they both happen very infrequently.

At these limits and with 120 BB's- reraising river is correct play. Now if your really deep- it may be wise to just call after a few re-raises back and forth.

Re: Second nuts facing river raise in $0.50/$1 PLO
 

[ QUOTE ]
This does remind me of a live 10-25 omaha hand. I flopped an open ended straight flush- but the flop also had a pair on the board.

The flop was 10d8d8s... i had 7d9d. There was heavy pre-flop action and I was facing a 600 dollar bet on the flop. There was 1 caller, so I essentially was getting 2 to 1 on my money. I was considering raising, but I had to assume they both had a hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds very like a hand I played on full tilt, except I'd flopped the quads, villain A had flopped tens full, and villain B chased down his straight flush and hit the river.