ugly 2 pair
 

20/40 live

UTG is somewhat tight PF, decent postflop and fastplays her hands
LP has been raising a decent amount PF but hasn't been to showdown yet
button is probably a self taught player and a pretty good hand reader

UTG limps, MP limps, LP raises, button calls, i call with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the BB, limpers call

flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 for 10SB)
LP bets, button calls, i call, UTG calls, MP folds

turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 for 7BB)
i bet, UTG raises, LP thinks and folds, button thinks and folds, i call getting 10:1 planning to fold the river UI

Re: ugly 2 pair
 

seems right, it seems pretty clear you are facing either KQ or 77 though 77 should have raised the flop, so KQ seems very very likely.
1:10 is enough

Re: ugly 2 pair
 

Is UTG a 30ish asian woman with shoulder length hair who is a local "pro" at Oceans? I can't remember her name but she can have JTs here. I doubt she limps UTG with KQ or 89s.

Re: ugly 2 pair
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is UTG a 30ish asian woman with shoulder length hair who is a local "pro" at Oceans? I can't remember her name but she can have JTs here. I doubt she limps UTG with KQ or 89s.

[/ QUOTE ]

hey doc,

this hand was played in the bay area

Re: ugly 2 pair
 

She's tight pf, limped UTG and plays fast. Does she limp TT and call the flop with it?

Sounds more like JTs than ATo because she just ch/c'd flop, rather than lead or c/r.

Maybe she picked up a fl dr/gut shot with KJ or QJ spades. Raising those hands there is a move a fast player might make.

I'm calling most rivers.

Re: ugly 2 pair
 

I think folding a blank river is a mistake. You donked the turn and she raised before the PFR and other guy could act. So while a straight or AT are still the lion's share of her range, this could still be some other hands that want to shut the pfr out like JT, AK/Q/9/8.

Re: ugly 2 pair
 

Limp with AK\Q seems pretty unreasonable , and A9 A8 seems too loose to me, I don't know the lady in question but if she 3 bets there with A9\8 I want her at my table

Re: ugly 2 pair
 

[ QUOTE ]
Limp with AK\Q seems pretty unreasonable , and A9 A8 seems too loose to me

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you can put her on many hands you can beat here, save the potential flush & straight draw combinations, which are very live. She probably has KQ, AT, or the set, though I lean toward KQ b/c I think a set might have raised the flop after the late position bet and two callers, and I think AT would have led out. This said, I do think you'll catch her holding a hand like QJs or KJs, or perhaps even some sort of bluff often enough to make the 10:1 call, along with a possible crying call on the river ok, as long as the river isn't a really ugly card.

Re: ugly 2 pair
 

I think that I would call her down since you say she plays fast post-flop.She could have 2 spades in her hand,one of them being a j or 7,& when she picked up the flush draw on the turn,she decided to make a move.

Re: ugly 2 pair
 

why no turn check raise?

given the action, I like your river plan.

Re: ugly 2 pair
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is UTG a 30ish asian woman with shoulder length hair who is a local "pro" at Oceans? I can't remember her name but she can have JTs here. I doubt she limps UTG with KQ or 89s.

[/ QUOTE ]

hey doc,

this hand was played in the bay area

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. That's exactly what I thought.

Re: ugly 2 pair
 

Bakku,

Are your suits correct so that JTs is impossible and Axs + flush draw are impossible? If so then folding seems ok. Based on the description it seems likely the T improved her as well though so the turn call actually seems close but probably fine when you consider she won't always bet the river.

Chief

Re: ugly 2 pair
 

all,

she doesn't have AK/AQ here. first, she'd raise them PF and if for some reason she didn't, she's not check/calling the flop with it. with KJs/QJs she's not raising the turn. my turn donk into 3 players is screaming strength and she still has the PFR to act behind her, raising would be a huge spew and she knows this. also, as chief pointed out, she can't have JTs here. this was something i overlooked and changes the river from a really easy fold to a super easy fold.

the question in this hand is if i should even be calling the turn raise in the first place or if i should just be folding right there

Re: ugly 2 pair
 

Bakku,

Are you thinking then KQ or AT are most likely? Based on your comments I don't know what else would be in there and it sounds like you're pretty certain you're behind. So you're really drawing to a bit less than 4 outs and she's almost never giving you a free showdown. If that's your thinking then sure...I'd say muck it.

What's your river plan for a J or T? I'd probably lead both but I'm a bit unsure if a T falls. I'm thinking no more than 2 bets with the T.

Chief