Should I slow play here?
 

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) internettexasholdem.com

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

UTG (t3085)
UTG+1 (t2230)
MP1 (t2435)
MP2 (t3205)
CO (t3865)
Hero (t1325)
SB (t2200)
BB (t415)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t90</font>, UTG+1 calls t90, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t280</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls t190, UTG+1 calls t190.

Flop: (t885) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t420</font>, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: t1305

Would it be better to just slow play here? I don't like to in general, but wondering if it might be appropriate here.

Re: Should I slow play here?
 

This is a horrible spot to slowplay since they often have PPs that they can't fold.

Re: Should I slow play here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is a horrible spot to slowplay since they often have PPs that they can't fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed need them to pay off worse hands here. i think I bet 2/3 pot here

Re: Should I slow play here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is a horrible spot to slowplay since they often have PPs that they can't fold.

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But wouldn't a PP 88+ have bet at this?

Re: Should I slow play here?
 

Not after your reraise PF. You got pretty good value getting them both to call that, and, well, getting a nearly 30BB pot at 15/30 isn't somethin' to sneeze at.

UTG might've been observant, and you've probably got a tight image this early?

Re: Should I slow play here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not after your reraise PF. You got pretty good value getting them both to call that, and, well, getting a nearly 30BB pot at 15/30 isn't somethin' to sneeze at.

UTG might've been observant, and you've probably got a tight image this early?

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Yeah I guess I should be happy that I got as much value as I did here, just going over some hands I've played in the last few months and I'm trying to think of alternate lines to the ones I did. This one seemed somewhat interesting as I usually don't slow play, but thought it may be appropriate here. Guess not.

EDIT: Probably have a tight image if anyone is paying attention. I assume they don't the first few rounds. Especially at the limits I play at.

Re: Should I slow play here?
 

no nice play.

Re: Should I slow play here?
 

I generally like to bet here because I think they will often have pocket pairs that will call and turn cards might come to kill your action (overcards to their pps). However, slowplaying on this board is not horrible by any means. Saying it's horrible is exaggerating.

Re: Should I slow play here?
 

when someone reraises pf and then checks the flop i think most players can smell the slowplay a mile away. i don't think either of the other players are putting more chips in unless they make a hand that beats you, e.g. a set. so you're really only giving them a chance to draw out. bet for value and hope a donkey plays back at you.

Re: Should I slow play here?
 

I agree. You bet here and hope someone with PP sticks around.

I think the better question is how do you encounter resistance here? If someone sees you as tight, and views the re-raise pre-flop as a big hand (QQ+), they most certainly push with 67 or 78 here.

What is you move if pushed here?

Re: Should I slow play here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I agree. You bet here and hope someone with PP sticks around.

I think the better question is how do you encounter resistance here? If someone sees you as tight, and views the re-raise pre-flop as a big hand (QQ+), they most certainly push with 67 or 78 here.

What is you move if pushed here?

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I dont think we can be worrying about villain having a 7 here. the small % of the time that he does have a 7 will be more than compensated by the times that he will show resistance w/ his pocket pair even tho he thinks you may have a big hand, b/c he prolly put u on AK

Re: Should I slow play here?
 

didnt read anything but the title but the answer is no

Re: Should I slow play here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
didnt read anything but the title but the answer is no

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I haven't read except the title and this response and while I agree instinctively, I'm going to read the post, responses and then play Devil's advocate if I possibly can because dogma is bad.

Likewise: "I'd rather cut off my own balls than min-raise" - looks good on a t-shirt and makes me laugh but perhaps not the best way to consider the intricacies of the game.

Edit: Um, the answer is no.

Re: Should I slow play here?
 

I like your bet. Nice play.

Re: Should I slow play here?
 

I see nothing wrong with betting here, but I also see nothing wrong with checking the flop. There are almost no draws out there so giving a free card can't hurt much.

The fact that there are two opponents in the hand, though, makes me more inclined to bet.

Re: Should I slow play here?
 

Bet unless they're aggro maniacs. I'd consider shoving it in though, since you have less behind than the pot and it can be interpreted as a steal with AK/AQ etc - PPs will prolly call you.

Re: Should I slow play here?
 

DaSwam:

Do you really think that someone could have 67 or 78 (UTG and UTG+1!!) after raise and reraise preflop?


It’s still hard to put either of my opponents on PP. Why wouldn’t they raise the flop? Preflop reraiser will bet this flop almost 100% of the time when both opponents check to him. If I’m UTG holding JJ, I’ll bet the flop and fold to reraise. If I’m just checking the flop and preflop reraiser bets, there’s no way to know if my jacks are still good or not.

So there might be some merits in checking the flop and try to induce a bluff on the turn, but I still have a hard time to give anyone a free card here. So I would bet the flop hoping one of them to call and if they both fold, that’s not that bad either. So I think that your play was standard, but I’m quite interested what the hell were these two other guys holding? If they don’t have PP, how likely it is that they both have A + face card when you’re holding two of those A’s?

Re: Should I slow play here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
DaSwam:

Do you really think that someone could have 67 or 78 (UTG and UTG+1!!) after raise and reraise preflop?


It’s still hard to put either of my opponents on PP. Why wouldn’t they raise the flop? Preflop reraiser will bet this flop almost 100% of the time when both opponents check to him. If I’m UTG holding JJ, I’ll bet the flop and fold to reraise. If I’m just checking the flop and preflop reraiser bets, there’s no way to know if my jacks are still good or not.

So there might be some merits in checking the flop and try to induce a bluff on the turn, but I still have a hard time to give anyone a free card here. So I would bet the flop hoping one of them to call and if they both fold, that’s not that bad either. So I think that your play was standard, but I’m quite interested what the hell were these two other guys holding? If they don’t have PP, how likely it is that they both have A + face card when you’re holding two of those A’s?

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Why can't they have a PP here? All we know is that they called a reraise preflop and checked to us (the PFR). Just because you would bet out with a PP doesn't mean that they would (or should necessarily). And if you were UTG and bet/folded JJ on this flop to PFR, I think that's quite bad. What are you goin to bet here 500 into an 800 pot and then fold for 500 more into a 2300 pot getting more than 4:1 with JJ on a 737 flop?

Re: Should I slow play here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I agree. You bet here and hope someone with PP sticks around.

I think the better question is how do you encounter resistance here? If someone sees you as tight, and views the re-raise pre-flop as a big hand (QQ+), they most certainly push with 67 or 78 here.

What is you move if pushed here?

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I have them crushed about 90% of the time if they move in on me, instacall. But, now looking at my bet size I'm a little pissed. Probably should have just pushed, but I didn't want to maximize FE, I want to maximize value. Maybe a value raise here would be more appropriate. Something in the 250-300 range. I know it's under betting the pot, but if I can get one caller I think it would be worth it, esp when I'm most likely a 80%+ favorite.

Re: Should I slow play here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
DaSwam:

Do you really think that someone could have 67 or 78 (UTG and UTG+1!!) after raise and reraise preflop?


It’s still hard to put either of my opponents on PP. Why wouldn’t they raise the flop? Preflop reraiser will bet this flop almost 100% of the time when both opponents check to him. If I’m UTG holding JJ, I’ll bet the flop and fold to reraise. If I’m just checking the flop and preflop reraiser bets, there’s no way to know if my jacks are still good or not.

So there might be some merits in checking the flop and try to induce a bluff on the turn, but I still have a hard time to give anyone a free card here. So I would bet the flop hoping one of them to call and if they both fold, that’s not that bad either. So I think that your play was standard, but I’m quite interested what the hell were these two other guys holding? If they don’t have PP, how likely it is that they both have A + face card when you’re holding two of those A’s?

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Why can't they have a PP here? All we know is that they called a reraise preflop and checked to us (the PFR). Just because you would bet out with a PP doesn't mean that they would (or should necessarily). And if you were UTG and bet/folded JJ on this flop to PFR, I think that's quite bad. What are you goin to bet here 500 into an 800 pot and then fold for 500 more into a 2300 pot getting more than 4:1 with JJ on a 737 flop?

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OK, they could have PP, but how is that not a bad play? Why would UTG call a good size reraise preflop with his pocket pair and check the flop and then fold when the preflop reraiser "surprisingly" bets? That just has to be some kind of advanced poker, because I don't get it.

I'll answer to that last question with another one. Could you let us know the answer for basic poker question: What does the minraise usually mean (especially when it's minreraise)? Then consider if we have enough odds to call here.

Re: Should I slow play here?
 

No need to slowpay here, make a bet if someone has 88+ they will likely push anyway. I don't see an easy way to fold this hand if you lead out strong post flop.