3-betting light, the fish and you
 

I've said this a million times, but it bears repeating.

3-betting light is something you should do occasionally vs. thinking players. Don't 3-bet the fish light.

I just saw the following hand go down on FT. The 3-bettor is a 19/17/3 "TAG" and the other guy is a huge donator -- 45/20/2.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Bilbo: $481.50
UTG+1: $197
CO: $186.80
Button: $142.65
SB: $300.55
BB: $40

Pre-flop: (6 players) Bilbo is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Bilbo raises to $7</font>, UTG+1 folds, CO calls, Button folds, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $32</font>, BB folds, Bilbo folds, CO calls.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($73, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $55</font>, CO calls.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($183, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $100</font>, <font color="#cc0000">CO calls all-in $99.8</font>.
Uncalled bets: $0.2 returned to SB.

River: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($382.6, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $382.6)


Results:
Final pot: $382.6
<font color="#ffffff">CO showed Ac Kd</font>
<font color="#ffffff">SB showed Qd As</font>

SB played AQ like it was AA. Of course, the reason you WOULD play AA like this is because the fish isn't folding and the fish has no freaking idea that this line looks exactly like AA.

When a TAG open-raises UTG, and a total fish calls, it's OK to muck AQo in the SB. No, really. You're going to be out of position the rest of the hand and you don't have much fold equity, and UTG could very well have a big hand. He IS UTG, after all.

It's OK to call here, too, and tread cautiously if you flop an A/Q.

But 3-betting here is a pure bluff, and it isn't a good one, because, dare I repeat it yet again, there's a calling station in the hand. Most of the time, you are going to end up OOP in a big pot.

This play would be MUCH better if the fish folded and the 18/15 button called before it got to you.

Re: 3-betting light, the fish and you
 

RRing AQ != RRing light.

Re: 3-betting light, the fish and you
 

[ QUOTE ]
RRing AQ != RRing light.

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In this spot, I disagree. This is a very marginal hand here.

Re: 3-betting light, the fish and you
 

Reraising fish light is verrrrrrry +EV, they get tilty and will often donate with weak hands. Also they love calling reraises and folding to flop bets, PLUS they call with very weak dominated hands so doing it with a hand that is a favorite over their range is a solid play.

OP, the AQ reraise there is pretty standard. Maybe a tad light since you're opening UTG, but it's not out of line unless you're UTG raising range is like AQ+, TT+.

Re: 3-betting light, the fish and you
 

how the hell is it a bluff if the fish is calling with a ton of hands, and the tag is likely folding all but the best? You get to play a big pot with a fish, with the lead and the best hand. Now maybe he is bad postflop, but repoping AQ here is good IMO

Re: 3-betting light, the fish and you
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
RRing AQ != RRing light.

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In this spot, I disagree. This is a very marginal hand here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with your disagreement.

Re: 3-betting light, the fish and you
 

bilbo,

3betting light vs fish is indeed a bad idea. But here:

1) you have AQ, and its for value vs fish and can get TAG to fold a better hand, so its fine.

2) fish is the caller, not the raiser, I find they fold more when they didnt raise themselves

Re: 3-betting light, the fish and you
 

Perhaps 3-betting wasn't the problem in this hand, it was the double barrel bluff vs. a calling station that was bad.

Re: 3-betting light, the fish and you
 

[ QUOTE ]
bilbo,

3betting light vs fish is indeed a bad idea. But here:

1) you have AQ, and its for value vs fish and can get TAG to fold a better hand, so its fine.

2) fish is the caller, not the raiser, I find they fold more when they didnt raise themselves

[/ QUOTE ]

what better hand is he folding?

Re: 3-betting light, the fish and you
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
bilbo,

3betting light vs fish is indeed a bad idea. But here:

1) you have AQ, and its for value vs fish and can get TAG to fold a better hand, so its fine.

2) fish is the caller, not the raiser, I find they fold more when they didnt raise themselves

[/ QUOTE ]

what better hand is he folding?

[/ QUOTE ]

PP's for a start, plus hands with good equity vs you, plus we build up FE for the flop where he folds AK and loads of PPs

Re: 3-betting light, the fish and you
 

The fish is a fish because he calls raises with hands much worse than AQ. The postflop play was the bad part.

Re: 3-betting light, the fish and you
 

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps 3-betting wasn't the problem in this hand, it was the double barrel bluff vs. a calling station that was bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's the combination of the two.

If you don't play well in re-raised pots, you shouldn't 3-bet that much.

In this spot, where the fish is going to call the flop with any pair, I think re-raising is very bad. The fish hadn't shown any tendencies whatsoever to either fold preflop or fold the flop to CBs (he had been in several spots where he took a small pair to the river).

I fail to see how stacking off with A-high against that player is a +EV move. While it's true this player is capable of stacking off with AJ here, it just isn't a big part of his range.

Re: 3-betting light, the fish and you
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
bilbo,

3betting light vs fish is indeed a bad idea. But here:

1) you have AQ, and its for value vs fish and can get TAG to fold a better hand, so its fine.

2) fish is the caller, not the raiser, I find they fold more when they didnt raise themselves

[/ QUOTE ]

what better hand is he folding?

[/ QUOTE ]

PP's for a start, plus hands with good equity vs you, plus we build up FE for the flop where he folds AK and loads of PPs

[/ QUOTE ]

I 4-bet with AK preflop nearly always against someone I suspect is 3-betting light, ESPECIALLY with the fish in the hand. I suspect I push AK fairly often.

Any PP I call with is one that I am looking to showdown with. It's true he'll get me to fold small PPs, but he also gets me to fold worse Aces, which is terrible for him, because I am very unlikely to CB the 3-way pot unimproved (since the calling station is involved), so he really wants us both to see a flop if I have something like A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].