Blind defence
 

Raiser is well-known to me, 26/13/2.2 over more than a thousand hands. I know he will raise light on occasion. At this table he has raised the last three hands and just about every time he has opened the betting.

Villain is new to me but he's going 79/13/2.75 over about 20 hands.

The plan is to coolcall the raise and C/R steal on the flop if it looks like it won't have helped raiser. I don't think villain has hit the flop at all but when he calls the turn bet, I'm not putting more money in unimproved. Thoughts on all streets?


Poker Room skin
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.25/$0.5
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG calls, 4 folds, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises</font>, 2 folds, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6.5SB, 3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls, CO folds.

Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5.75BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls.

River: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7.75BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks.

Results:
Final pot: 7.75BB

Re: Blind defence
 

I would have folded preflop. J8o isn't a great defending hand.

Re: Blind defence
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would have folded preflop. J8o isn't a great defending hand.

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This guy is raising *everything* though. It's actually a bit out of character for him. Ordinarily, I fold it too.

Re: Blind defence
 

Since your known villian will raise 13% of hands preflop doesn't that make his entire range stronger than your hand? With no reads on the other villian don't you have to assume his hand is stronger than J8o?

When you bluff with basically air do you generally toss it in to multiple players with probable stronger hands?

IMO fold preflop. Defend another time.

As played fold the flop. (It didn't hit your hand. You are bluffing two people with air)

As played check /fold the turn

River is fine. IMHO

Re: Blind defence
 

[ QUOTE ]
Since your known villian will raise 13% of hands preflop doesn't that make his entire range stronger than your hand? With no reads on the other villian don't you have to assume his hand is stronger than J8o?

[/ QUOTE ]


But I do have a read. He has raised the last three hands and is raising *every time* it is folded to him. It is out of character for him because he clearly does not raise with this range all the time.

[ QUOTE ]
When you bluff with basically air do you generally toss it in to multiple players with probable stronger hands?

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If CO had called the flop, I would have been done with it. I didn't think the other guy necessarily had a stronger hand.

[ QUOTE ]
IMO fold preflop. Defend another time.

As played fold the flop. (It didn't hit your hand. You are bluffing two people with air)

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I am bluffing a PFR who I can be almost certain missed the flop and a guy who has mostly missed it too.

I would mostly fold this preflop. Agreed. But once I'm here, surely this is a good spot to have a tilt?

Re: Blind defence
 

I can appreciate what you are thinking but I think his previous actions are a predictor of his range, not his specific holding. Therefor you should at least have a hand that can compete in his range. Has he (they) really been aggressive with weaker hands than J8o. I'm not saying saying don't sting him but I would wait for a better spot/

Re: Blind defence
 

despite all the info given I still fold this preflop and I wait for a better spot. Ive learnt the hard way that trying to outplay lags with junk costs me money, especially when OOP.

also just because he raised the last 3 times doesnt mean he flipped his "Im a total tard" switch as he might have actually gotten decent raising hands.

as an aside whenever I get 3 or so raising hands in a row I find that people start to make loose calls of my 3rd4th raise... on a good day my first 2 were steals and by the time they decide Im FOS and call Ive got rocket rockets and win a big pot. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

edit: miles caught my typo b4 I did so I aint gunna fix it. meh...rocket rockets are the new pocket rockets dont you know.

Re: Blind defence
 

1. this isnt a blind defense
2. fold preflop
3. the pfr folded the flop and you got COLDCALLED ON A PAIRED BOARD. STOP BLUFFING IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU CAN NOT WIN THIS HAND WITHOUT IMPROVING!!!!!! CHECKFOLD THE TURN IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!

edit: ALSO [ QUOTE ]
rocket rockets

[/ QUOTE ]lol

Re: Blind defence
 

[ QUOTE ]
1. this isnt a blind defense
2. fold preflop
3. the pfr folded the flop and you got COLDCALLED ON A PAIRED BOARD. STOP BLUFFING IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU CAN NOT WIN THIS HAND WITHOUT IMPROVING!!!!!! CHECKFOLD THE TURN IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I probably should have. The retard rivered me.

Re: Blind defence
 

this isnt really a blind defense with utg open limping. as such i would fold pf.

if it had been folded to the stealer i would probably take your line.

Re: Blind defence
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would have folded preflop. J8o isn't a great defending hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

This guy is raising *everything* though. It's actually a bit out of character for him. Ordinarily, I fold it too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe he's on a good rush of cards. It's only 3 hands, not 30 hands.

Re: Blind defence
 

[ QUOTE ]
this isnt really a blind defense with utg open limping. as such i would fold pf.



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Re: Blind defence
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this isnt really a blind defense with utg open limping. as such i would fold pf.



[/ QUOTE ]

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You know, at this point, I am smacking myself upside the head and saying "it wasn't folded to him, idiot"!

But say it had been, what's your play then?

Re: Blind defence
 

[ QUOTE ]
You know, at this point, I am smacking myself upside the head and saying "it wasn't folded to him, idiot"!

But say it had been, what's your play then?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd generally still fold. I'd have to know that he's either weak or crazy aggro postflop in heads up situations if I were to take him on with this hand. If he's weak, I'm playing to look for spots to make him fold. If he's crazy aggro, I'm playing to catch a pair and let him bet all streets for me. Between the extremes, it's going to be tough. J8o just isn't that good of a hand.

Re: Blind defence
 

[ QUOTE ]
if it had been folded to the stealer i would probably take your line.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Blind defence
 

[ QUOTE ]
1. this isnt a blind defense
2. fold preflop
3. the pfr folded the flop and you got COLDCALLED ON A PAIRED BOARD. STOP BLUFFING IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU CAN NOT WIN THIS HAND WITHOUT IMPROVING!!!!!! CHECKFOLD THE TURN IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!

edit: ALSO [ QUOTE ]
rocket rockets

[/ QUOTE ]lol

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I missing something here? This guy has shorthanded stats and he's isolating a guy who apparantly plays every hand. I think preflop is fine but check/fold turn for sure.

Re: Blind defence
 

- decent risk of domination because he probably starts to raise hands right when they begin to dominate you - like J9s, JTo, A8o, K8s.
- worst position
- poker room low limit rake
- look at how he played postflop