Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

Fixed to use MGR instead of rake. Please put down your torches and pitchforks.

I've used my own PT stats for the last couple months.

All numbers below reflect the new FPP thresholds.

Using 1FPP=$.015


NL$100 Full Ring
VPIP: 22.54
Total Hands: 138388
Hands rake .40 or more: 58368
Hands rake $3: 6961
Total VPP generated: 65329
Ave VPP/hand: .47
Total rake: $5586.85
MGR: $10012.93

Bronze FPP: 65329 = $979.94 = 10% rakeback based on MGR
Silver FPP: 97993 = $1469.90 = 15% rakeback based on MGR
Gold FPP: 130658 = $1959.87 = 20% rakeback based on MGR
Platinum FPP: 163322 = $2449.83 = 24% rakeback based on MGR
Supernova FPP: 228651 = $3429.77 = 34% rakeback based on MGR


NL$200 Full Ring
VPIP: 19.20
Total Hands: 21082
All hands rake .40: 11350
All hands rake $3: 2311
Total VPP: 13661
Ave VPP/hand: .65
Total rake: $1082.25
MGR: $2184.39

Bronze FPP: 13661 = $204.92 = 9% rakeback based on MGR
Silver FPP: 20491 = $307.37 = 14% rakeback based on MGR
Gold FPP: 27322 = $409.83 = 19% rakeback based on MGR
Platinum FPP: 34152 = $512.28 = 23% rakeback based on MGR
Supernova FPP: 47813 = $717.20 = 33% rakeback based on MGR


Keep in mind Platinum and Supernova players are rare at these levels. Most players are Gold or less.

Average hands required for level:

NL$100 Full Ring
Silver: 3192 hands/month
Gold: 8511 hands/month
Platinum: 21277 hands/month
Supernova: 212766 hands/year

NL$200 Full Ring
Silver: 2308 hands/month
Gold: 6154 hands/month
Platinum: 15385 hands/month
Supernova: 153846 hands/year

So all you other low-limit guys thinking of pushing for Supernova by the end of the year?

Do it!!!!!

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

Doesn't sound right...

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

Wow. I was happy seeing the 24.5% number at 1/2 6-max before reading this thread. Now all I can think about it how badly 6-max players get [censored] over.

But are you calculating RB percentages based on the total rake paid in the General Info tab? Or by MGR numbers on the Games Notes tab? Because if it's the first method, then you can't make a direct comparison to Full Tilt RB.

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring *DELETED*
 

Post deleted by Cry Me A River

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

Supernovas are getting 66% RB and Goldstars 38%?
Have you been drinking from the nighty potty? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Wow. I was happy seeing the 24.5% number at 1/2 6-max before reading this thread. Now all I can think about it how badly 6-max players get [censored] over.


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What Star level?

Is that using the new $2 rake threshold for the bonus VPP? That should make a huge difference.

[/ QUOTE ]
ata's numbers for 'nova under the new rules gives 24.5% for 1/2NL 6-max. TheMeteron's numbers backed this up, as do my numbers over a couple thousand hands so far.

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

A simple check fo the math checks out for me:

Say a FR hand is raked $.40 and a player has supernova status. The player gets 3.5 FPP, which are worth $.015 each, so he gets $.0525 in return, while each player only contributed $.04 in rake in the first place. Thaqt's the complete optimal situation, but it does show that absurdly high RB can be had through this system.

My question is, why the hell does this include up to $1/$2 blind NL games but only up to $1/$2 fixed limit? $100NL is a way bigger game than $1/$2 limit. Still a big improvement, although after reading this thread they probably get rid of it.

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

The math is correct - but he needs to redo the calculations based of MGR numbers, not total rake paid, if you want to make a direct comparison to Full Tilt.

FWIW, here's what ata came up with - about half of what OP is getting. 6-max players still get [censored].

NEW NUMBERS (Bronze/Silver/Gold/Platinum/Supernova)

100NL Full Ring 9.6% 14.4% 19.1% 23.9% 33.5%
200NL Full Ring 9.1% 13.7% 18.3% 22.8% 31.9%
200NL 6max 7.0% 10.5% 14.0% 17.5% 24.5%

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

General info tab is your problem. That's why it is so high.

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

Edited to use MGR instead of rake. Now tops out at 33/34%.

Sorry guys!

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

I don't think VPPs can be used as FPPs. Getting more VPPs seems to make it easier to become a supernova, but you don't get an FPP for every VPP...

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

Your MGR should not be THAT different from your rake...

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

Do you now get FPPs at $.40?

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

Yeah, 6-max gets a worse deal than full ring. In general when it comes to bonuses &etc, limit>NL>6-max.

IMHO, there's two good reasons for this:

1) In terms of popularity, 6-max>FR and NL>limit so sites in general are looking to encourage play at the less popular games. Most players are not savvy enough to do this type of price comparrison, but, this keeps more money in those economies longer which encourages more play.

2) Bad players go broke faster at 6-max than they do at full ring. And they go broke fater at NL then they do at limit. So the house gets less rake in the long run. It's encouragement to play games which make the house more $$.

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

This is not the real reason... it's generally just because 6-max generates less rake overall, but takes a larger percentage from each player. If you think about it, there's little ways they can make it so that 6-max NL games would earn more FPPs without an unusual skew like changing the rake numbers.

6-max SSNL generates a lot of small pots that don't produce FPPs and what not, and NL generates less consistent rake than limit.

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

LOL i just saw the post by Lee Jones, and understand better now what you are referring to. FWIW you meant FPP not VPP.

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

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I don't think VPPs can be used as FPPs. Getting more VPPs seems to make it easier to become a supernova, but you don't get an FPP for every VPP...


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You generate VPP's based on raked hands. VPP determines Bronze/Silver/Gold/Platinum/Supernova.

FPP's are a multiple of VPP and your VIP level. (ie: for Silver, FPP=VPP*1.5)

The change makes it easier for low-limit players to attain higher VIP levels and generate FPP's which are traded in at the store.

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Your MGR should not be THAT different from your rake...

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???

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Do you now get FPPs at $.40?

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Up to $200NL you now get 1 VPP for every pot raked $.40 or more. Bonus point for $3 rake ($2 at 6-max).

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

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LOL i just saw the post by Lee Jones, and understand better now what you are referring to. FWIW you meant FPP not VPP.

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No, keep reading that thread. I have it right, Lee switched them.

VPP determines your VIP level and multiplier.

You trade FPP in at the store.

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

Yeap, just read more. I didn't realize that by earning a VPP it now means you also earn an FPP since they were given at the same # before for NL games... I got even more confused when I read that your thread and thought that VPPs were given at 40 cents, but FPPs remained the same. And then i read that thread which says they are at the same threshhold.

And I'm going to go lie down. :-D

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is not the real reason... it's generally just because 6-max generates less rake overall, but takes a larger percentage from each player. If you think about it, there's little ways they can make it so that 6-max NL games would earn more FPPs without an unusual skew like changing the rake numbers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, base bonuses/VPP type programs directly on MGR/rake instead of "raked hands" (however a raked hand is defined). However, virtually no sites do this for these types of promotions.

Why? Just to hide the magnitude of rake from players? IMHO, it's far more likely that it's because doing so favours games that are more profitable for the site in which case limit>NL and FR>6-max.

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

The reason limit gets so many FPPs is because they get raked like nobody's business. My total rake paid is down well over 75% since switching to NL.

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

[ QUOTE ]
100NL Full Ring 9.6% 14.4% 19.1% 23.9% 33.5%
200NL Full Ring 9.1% 13.7% 18.3% 22.8% 31.9%
200NL 6max 7.0% 10.5% 14.0% 17.5% 24.5%

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hmm, then the Platinum level is almost worthless. Too much work for the additional 3% (more than twice VPP needed).

It' better to run for the supernova then.

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

24% RB for supernova at 6max? wow. that is terrible

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

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24% RB for supernova at 6max? wow. that is terrible

[/ QUOTE ]

Has OP noted that you get 2nd VPP at $2 rake, not $3 at 6max?

(6 max LHE SN works out to well over 30% BEFORE you include the stepping bonii)

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

it doesn't matter. As I understand OP he just took numbers from PS lobby (VPP earned) and PT database (rake paid).

Divided an viola we have the rakeback.

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

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it doesn't matter. As I understand OP he just took numbers from PS lobby (VPP earned) and PT database (rake paid).

Divided an viola we have the rakeback.

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No. He used the game note filter in PT. If you play multiple limits your method obviously doesn't work.

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

Uhhh where can I sign up for stars rakeback?

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

These are the numbers I come up with when looking at the cash bonuses only. The $285 Gold bonus costs 25K FPPs, the $650 Platinum bonus costs 50K FPPs, and the $1500 Supernova bonus costs 100K FPPs.


http://www.imghut.net/images/101058.gif

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

wow i might have to switch to 9 max DAMNIT

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

Does anyone have a complete list of rakeback precentages for supernovas? It would be nice if we could make this somehow.

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

[ QUOTE ]
These are the numbers I come up with when looking at the cash bonuses only. The $285 Gold bonus costs 25K FPPs, the $650 Platinum bonus costs 50K FPPs, and the $1500 Supernova bonus costs 100K FPPs.


http://www.imghut.net/images/101058.gif

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How come $1 NL has a high rakeback than $2 NL?

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

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How come $1 NL has a high rakeback than $2 NL?

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because the best option for rakeback is NL50. The VPP are gained only for $8 (1VPP) an $60 pots (2VPP). NL50 goes above $8 on average but they don't go much (thus low rake; high VPP).

The rest is variance. The NL50 there seems to be too low (the NL200 also but I don't have enough numbers for that level).

NL50 and NL100 and NL200 all averages between $8-$60 pots so an average pot of these 3 levels gains 1VPP (+ 1 point for $60 pot each).

Also look at the numbers they are pretty the same:
14.58
14.88
14.14

Just variance.

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

too confusing and the most are wrong here. plz post your total pokertracker rake from your hands on the levels 50-100-200-400 and the number of hands, and the number of totals Vpps you got and i will find out and post the exact percentages.
limit: total rake,total hands, total Vpps ,these we need

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

[ QUOTE ]
These are the numbers I come up with when looking at the cash bonuses only. The $285 Gold bonus costs 25K FPPs, the $650 Platinum bonus costs 50K FPPs, and the $1500 Supernova bonus costs 100K FPPs.


http://www.imghut.net/images/101058.gif

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woah.. full ring .50/1 > 6max .50/1?

thought the extra VPP bonus at $2 pots for 6max made it better?

THX for showing me the light

<------- SnG player who is getting nailed by the Doomswitch at the moment.. -25 buy-ins in 3 days

edit:
wait... if both .50/1 full ring and 6max earn about the same vpp rate, then how is rakeback less for 6max?!

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

For pots with $0.40 rake you are paying 0.4/(6 players) = 6.7 cents in rake on average for the first VPP in 6max games. Full ring pays 4.4 cents on average for the first VPP (0.4/9 players). The second VPP comes out equivalent for both: $2/6 players and $3/9 players. Basically, 6max pays more rake for each point and so the 'rakeback' is a bit lower. In the end it is probably equivalent if you look at time spent playing since 6 max can get more hands in.

I'm pretty sure I did the math correctly for my table. I used MGR, not total rake. And half of the levels have a tiny sample size so probably take the numbers with a grain of salt if you want to draw some conclusion. For me the numbers are exact, everyone else will get slightly different numbers. Or drastically different if you only play the wild tables, super tight tables, whatever.

Oh and I'm normally a full ring nit so maybe my 6max numbers are lower for that reason as well. Probably had smaller pots while I was there.

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

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too confusing and the most are wrong here. plz post your total ...

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do you play at PS? There's no direct way how to calculate it. You get 1 point for 40c rake and 2 points for 3$ rake taken.

You have to sum up the # of hands with more than 40c and 3$. I'll do it next time I compare my results across the sites.
For now you have to believe me: the NL50 FR is the best level for rakeback at Pokerstars. Or gather your own numbers.

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

[ QUOTE ]
.50/1 full ring and 6max earn about the same vpp rate, then how is rakeback less for 6max?!

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the best situation: FR (9 people) and rake taken 40c (1VPP) = 1 VPP costs you 4.4 cents.
the worst situation: SH (6 people) and rake taken $1.95 (1VPP) = 1 VPP costs you 32.5 cents

See the difference? One rakes $44 to get 1000 VPPS and the other rakes $325 to get 1000 VPPS!




As of the 1VPP for 6max - if you rake consistently at $2 it's better. But you are usually below or you reach the $3 rake. At $3 rake you get 2 VPPs no matter where you play.

edit: it's better only for rakeback counted by rake (% you get back).
For rakeback counted by hands (rakeback per hand) it seems to be about the same (very lightly better for 6max because of the hands with rake taken between $2-$3).
for rakeback counted by hours (rakeback per hour) the 6max is obviously better (but you obviously pay more rake per hour at 6max also)

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

[ QUOTE ]
wait... if both .50/1 full ring and 6max earn about the same vpp rate, then how is rakeback less for 6max?!

[/ QUOTE ]

6max players pay a lot more rake per person, and get about the same number of VPPs. So the percentage of rake refunded through the VIP program is lower.

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

of course there is a way to calculate i dont play cash but if i know how many vpps you get for 1000hands and how many rake have you paid for these hands(which you can see it from pokertracker) then i can calculate exaclty what is the %rakeback you get.

Re: Stars New Rakeback Values for $100NL and $200NL Full Ring
 

[ QUOTE ]
of course there is a way to calculate i dont play cash but if i know how many vpps you get for 1000hands and how many rake have you paid for these hands(which you can see it from pokertracker) then i can calculate exaclty what is the %rakeback you get.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can calculate it too, it's in a nice table and everything. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]