Why do poker players seem to think they are great?
 

I have been playing poker for a few years and the one thing I find in most serious players is that they think they know all about poker. Casual players or those purely playing for fun not so much. It just seems anyone who has read a poker book or discussed strategy with a friend thinks they have it figured out. One of the most common traits of these types is complaining when they lose to a flush but when they have the same draw they play it the same way and will then justify it to the guy he just beat who is now complaining. I am not complaining because I think this is what makes the games profitable but I am curious to others thoughts on the topic. What is psychogically that makes people feel they are superior to their competition in poker.

Re: Why do poker players seem to think they are great?
 

Any direct competition / confrontation is going to dent "easily dentable" egos. There's a lot of "puffing of chests" in poker- and it's a dam good job there is- that's when the mistakes are made. And the ego stops the mistakes becoming apparent and fixable. May it long remain.

Ian

Re: Why do poker players seem to think they are great?
 

It's natural. You're playing a people game that takes a great deal of intelligence, and a lot of the more serious players are smart guys. They've never been the dumb guy in the room in their life, so naturally if they find a few things that work at the table they're going to feel pretty brilliant. I use to be the same way (mind you, I was a bad player, and am only now starting to become decent).

What's more interesting is that in my case, and with a lot of others, the better they get the more humble they are.

Re: Why do poker players seem to think they are great?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have been playing poker for a few years and the one thing I find in most serious players is that they think they know all about poker. Casual players or those purely playing for fun not so much. It just seems anyone who has read a poker book or discussed strategy with a friend thinks they have it figured out. One of the most common traits of these types is complaining when they lose to a flush but when they have the same draw they play it the same way and will then justify it to the guy he just beat who is now complaining. I am not complaining because I think this is what makes the games profitable but I am curious to others thoughts on the topic. What is psychogically that makes people feel they are superior to their competition in poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno....the ability to bring home wads of cash week after week?

Seriously, though, there are a few pretty good players I run across on a day to day basis in the B&M's, but only one truly gifted opponent. We've struck up a fast friendship for two very simple reasons. I view him as an honest man with integrity, and he helps me improve my game. I hope he views me the same way.

Very few are able to tell how skilled this player is at the table, either. The guy is always complimenting his opponents on obviously poor play, and he's just a real hoot to have at the table. He'll even throw out a pointer here or there to make his competition feel like their gaining an advantage. Fish seek this guy out at the tables even though he almost always takes their money. It took me a while to figure him out, but by the time I had grown to know him well enough to actually ask him what he did for a living, I already knew the answer. He's a professional poker player.

I try to emulate his behavior as much as I can at a poker table, and I have come a long way. I have no trouble keeping my cool in the internet when I'm playing three tables and variance takes a lot less time to even out. I still have some trouble in a B&M when the cards run bad for an extended period of time, but rest assured that I get mad at the cards and not my opponents.

I think what you are seeing here is that the players who really do know what they are doing at a poker table know this and try to keep it a secret. Doing otherwise would cut into their winnings. The players who have basic strategy figured out but either can't get their discipline under control or just don't understand some key elements of the game tend to berate other players for their shortcomings.

Yes, you are right when you say that these kinds of players are contributors, but they're kind of like the idiot who live straddles all night long. They are actually a detriment to the game because they scare other fish away. While I'll let an opponent straddle all night long and take his money, I'll call out the table coach each and every time. I'll let my opponent vent, but the second he starts telling others how to play, I'll say something like, "one player per hand, please" or "if you think he's such a bad player, then take his money".

Re: Why do poker players seem to think they are great?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What's more interesting is that in my case, and with a lot of others, the better they get the more humble they are.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would imagine it's either get more humble or tear yourself apart with the "bad beats"? [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: Why do poker players seem to think they are great?
 

I rarely play live games, mostly online. While waiting for money to transfer sites recently I dipped my toe into some local underground games to satisfy my poker fix. It seems that the phenomena that you speak of is very prevalent in the live game setting.

When I play live I will talk about any topic except poker. The other players, however, talk incessantly about how good they are, discuss strategy and complain about bad beats. It seems like this trait is more common with the younger players(<30 yo). As to why they do this, I do not know. The more they talk, though, the more information they provide the observant opponent.

Re: Why do poker players seem to think they are great?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The more they talk, though, the more information they provide the observant opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is one of those secrets I try not to divulge:)

Re: Why do poker players seem to think they are great?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What's more interesting is that in my case, and with a lot of others, the better they get the more humble they are.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a perfect example of this. I used to be a very arrogant, bad player, but now i'm an extremely humble incredible player.

Re: Why do poker players seem to think they are great?
 

Heh. You know what I mean.

Re: Why do poker players seem to think they are great?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What's more interesting is that in my case, and with a lot of others, the better they get the more humble they are.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a perfect example of this. I used to be a very arrogant, bad player, but now i'm an extremely humble incredible player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol

Re: Why do poker players seem to think they are great?
 

Another thing is that it is very easy to learn a few simple principles and become a winner at low-stakes games. These players have some success and start thinking that anyone not playing a weak-tight TAG game is an idiot. They think the game is simple because they have no trouble taking money from calling stations and maniacs. They don't know how to play good poker and usually can't identify good players who aren't weak-tight TAGs. They may even think these players are morons.

For example, suppose I am playing 6-max NL and it is folded to me on the button. I raise with a really marginal hand, hoping to steal the blinds, and a blind calls. I flop nothing but a gutshot and the blind, a weak-tight table coach checks. I make a continuation bet and he calls. I plan on check/folding the turn since he probably has me beat. Instead I hit my gutshot and end up stacking him. From his perspective, I bet preflop with trash, then bet with just a gutshot and ended up sucking out on him. He has no idea what really happened in the hand and assumes I'm an idiot maniac. A few hands later I stack him again, this time with a set vs. his top pair, weak kicker. He wonders how an idiot like me gets so lucky. He has no idea that I only play big pots with big hands.

Re: Why do poker players seem to think they are great?
 

It's not just poker dude it's anything in life.

When I go fishing... I'm the fish god...(who can't bait the hook)

When I go golfing... I"m tiger (master of hitting out of the woods)

When I go skiing... I'm king of the mountain

When I go hunting... I'm the king killer

When I go shopping... I'm the king of finding a deal

When I have sex...I'm king of the woman (Now she does disagree with this)

When I cook... I'm king of the kitchen

You have to understand that we are men and we are stupid. No matter what we do we are the best at everything.

Its the truth that the people who are the best at things are the ones who knew they suck and worked at it.

Me I could care less if I'm good at anything.. because in my mind I already am [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] anyone who says otherwise is just trying to ruin my day. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Why do poker players seem to think they are great?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Another thing is that it is very easy to learn a few simple principles and become a winner at low-stakes games. These players have some success and start thinking that anyone not playing a weak-tight TAG game is an idiot. They think the game is simple because they have no trouble taking money from calling stations and maniacs. They don't know how to play good poker and usually can't identify good players who aren't weak-tight TAGs. They may even think these players are morons.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is what makes me laugh....they dont realize if it was truly that simple, everyone would be making a living playing poker since basic strategy can be learned in weeks. Its like these people think they have some kind of inside knowledge that isnt even very complex. People just tend to underestimate their competiton for some reason. Like I said in the OP, I dont mind it is just kind of amusing.

Re: Why do poker players seem to think they are great?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another thing is that it is very easy to learn a few simple principles and become a winner at low-stakes games. These players have some success and start thinking that anyone not playing a weak-tight TAG game is an idiot. They think the game is simple because they have no trouble taking money from calling stations and maniacs. They don't know how to play good poker and usually can't identify good players who aren't weak-tight TAGs. They may even think these players are morons.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is what makes me laugh....they dont realize if it was truly that simple, everyone would be making a living playing poker since basic strategy can be learned in weeks. Its like these people think they have some kind of inside knowledge that isnt even very complex. People just tend to underestimate their competiton for some reason. Like I said in the OP, I dont mind it is just kind of amusing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lets not go crazy. If it were that simple, the vast majority of players would still lose. Heck, at levels high enough to probably make a living, it IS that simple. I can play 2/5 NL live, play like a simple robot and probably scrape together a living.

Mastering things makes people feel powerful. Obviously no one really masters poker, but you can master certain concepts. And when you master the first couple major concepts, you feel powerful. By the time you've mastered many of the important concepts, its old hat and you aren't nearly as cocky about it.

Re: Why do poker players seem to think they are great?
 

"Another thing is that it is very easy to learn a few simple principles and become a winner at low-stakes games."

I do not agree with this. In fact beating low stakes games for a reasonable income is not as easy as it appears. Also there is a huge difference between live and online IMO, they simply can't be compared IMO.

Re: Why do poker players seem to think they are great?
 

[ QUOTE ]
"Another thing is that it is very easy to learn a few simple principles and become a winner at low-stakes games."

I do not agree with this. In fact beating low stakes games for a reasonable income is not as easy as it appears. Also there is a huge difference between live and online IMO, they simply can't be compared IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously? The only reason all low-stakes games arent ridiculously crushable is because of the rake. I'm fairly confident I could teach my grandma to beat 1/2 NL or 3/6 LHE, either online or live, and definitely live.

Man, this post was a great example of the OP!

Re: Why do poker players seem to think they are great?
 

Because luck plays such a big part in poker, when a player loses he can console himself with the fact that the cards were poor, when he wins he attributes to his skill. This is called self-deceit.

Re: Why do poker players seem to think they are great?
 

[ QUOTE ]

Yes, you are right when you say that these kinds of players are contributors, but they're kind of like the idiot who live straddles all night long. They are actually a detriment to the game because they scare other fish away. While I'll let an opponent straddle all night long and take his money, I'll call out the table coach each and every time. I'll let my opponent vent, but the second he starts telling others how to play, I'll say something like, "one player per hand, please" or "if you think he's such a bad player, then take his money".

[/ QUOTE ]

You think a frequent straddler hurts the game? I don't think I've ever seen this effect. It seems to me like:

1) It makes even the worst player at the game happy to stay, thinking he must have an edge since "even he knows not to straddle".

2) It gives off the impression that everyone's there to gamble, and makes people not take the game quite as seriously.

3) It just generally makes people play looser. They're not going to fold top pair (or sometimes ace high) if the game's full of crazy people that like to straddle.

Seriously, I think straddling does nothing but loosen the game up, and I'm always happy to see a straddler at my table. Sometimes, if the game gets too tight, I'll even throw in a straddle or two myself just to give off a loose image and get everyone gambling again. I really can't imagine how this would hurt a game.

Re: Why do poker players seem to think they are great?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Yes, you are right when you say that these kinds of players are contributors, but they're kind of like the idiot who live straddles all night long. They are actually a detriment to the game because they scare other fish away. While I'll let an opponent straddle all night long and take his money, I'll call out the table coach each and every time. I'll let my opponent vent, but the second he starts telling others how to play, I'll say something like, "one player per hand, please" or "if you think he's such a bad player, then take his money".

[/ QUOTE ]

You think a frequent straddler hurts the game? I don't think I've ever seen this effect. It seems to me like:

1) It makes even the worst player at the game happy to stay, thinking he must have an edge since "even he knows not to straddle".

2) It gives off the impression that everyone's there to gamble, and makes people not take the game quite as seriously.

3) It just generally makes people play looser. They're not going to fold top pair (or sometimes ace high) if the game's full of crazy people that like to straddle.

Seriously, I think straddling does nothing but loosen the game up, and I'm always happy to see a straddler at my table. Sometimes, if the game gets too tight, I'll even throw in a straddle or two myself just to give off a loose image and get everyone gambling again. I really can't imagine how this would hurt a game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Imo, straddlers help keep the nits away and the gamblers on the table. I've never really seen them have a detrimental effect on a game.

b

Re: Why do poker players seem to think they are great?
 

I'm a proven winner at 400NL and I think I suck. I will not feel good about my game until I beat high stakes for a good amount.

Re: Why do poker players seem to think they are great?
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's natural. You're playing a people game that takes a great deal of intelligence, and a lot of the more serious players are smart guys. They've never been the dumb guy in the room in their life, so naturally if they find a few things that work at the table they're going to feel pretty brilliant. I use to be the same way (mind you, I was a bad player, and am only now starting to become decent).

What's more interesting is that in my case, and with a lot of others, the better they get the more humble they are.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what you are saying in a nutshell is;

I used to think I was great......

.....But now I realise I used to be rubbish.......

....Now I think I'm great......

Seems like a vicious circle or something, I think a ton of people have the same problem (myself included).

Mack

Re: Why do poker players seem to think they are great?
 

roffle, this one time i was playing this live tourney. and this table captain was showing off by giving everyone advice as to how one should have played his hand and stuff. really annoying human being he was. anyway late in tourney one guy raises utg 10handed. and our hero pushes all in while he was table chip leader. guy thinks and calls and turns over QQ and our hero turns over J7 offsuit. rofl. after that he shut up. fking idiot.

Re: Why do poker players seem to think they are great?
 

I see the same thing too, mostly live at B&Ms and home games.

With the luck factor, even people that don't really know what they are doing can have a winning session or two. They win a couple of home games with their buddies or make a big bluff or catch two pair with their King-rag (suited!), etc. and all of a sudden, they are "good."

Re: Why do poker players seem to think they are great?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's natural. You're playing a people game that takes a great deal of intelligence, and a lot of the more serious players are smart guys. They've never been the dumb guy in the room in their life, so naturally if they find a few things that work at the table they're going to feel pretty brilliant. I use to be the same way (mind you, I was a bad player, and am only now starting to become decent).

What's more interesting is that in my case, and with a lot of others, the better they get the more humble they are.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what you are saying in a nutshell is;

I used to think I was great......

.....But now I realise I used to be rubbish.......

....Now I think I'm great......

Seems like a vicious circle or something, I think a ton of people have the same problem (myself included).

Mack

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, the key point is, he's always great currently. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Why do poker players seem to think they are great?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I see the same thing too, mostly live at B&Ms and home games.

With the luck factor, even people that don't really know what they are doing can have a winning session or two. They win a couple of home games with their buddies or make a big bluff or catch two pair with their King-rag (suited!), etc. and all of a sudden, they are "good."

[/ QUOTE ]


i love those kind of players. Because they're the kind to think, "I'll call this hand cause I always win with it"

Or "I hit my fd loads"

Re: Why do poker players seem to think they are great?
 

It's a defense mechanism. Even the best players lose large sums of money sometime in their career. You've got to think that you have an edge to not worry about losses. Come back after you've lost a small house or a new luxury car playing poker then speculate why players think they are good at the game.

Re: Why do poker players seem to think they are great?
 

A self-serving bias occurs when people are more likely to claim responsibility for successes than failures. It may also manifest itself as a tendency for people to evaluate ambiguous information in a way beneficial to their interests.

Re: Why do poker players seem to think they are great?
 

The difference between all the losers who think they are good and me is........

I'm the best thing since triglycerides baaaby

Re: Why do poker players seem to think they are great?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What's more interesting is that in my case, and with a lot of others, the better they get the more humble they are.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a perfect example of this. I used to be a very arrogant, bad player, but now i'm an extremely humble incredible player.

[/ QUOTE ]

umm sure.