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Bay 101 100-200, 10 handed. Button is the reason we're all there, but there are some other exploitable spots in the game as well. Anyway, hijack open-raises. Hijack is a good player who has logged a lot of time with me. We both read each other pretty well. Button cold-calls. This means he probably doesn't have complete garbage. He is very loose and prone to giving too much action when drawing thin to dead. I call in the BB with 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. HJ raiser should be somewhat neutralized by the button and the button will pay me off big if I hit something.

Flop: T85 rainbow. I check, HJ bets, button calls, I raise, HJ 3-bets, button calls. I think for a bit and cap. Both call.

Turn: T(T85), putting two [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]s on the board. What do you think of bet-folding vs. check-see-what-happens vs. other? HJ likely puts me on a big made hand with an outside possibility of a straight draw -- he can make laydowns but given the possibility of a straight draw he might be a bit suspicious here. Button seems to be only a first-level thinker and probably does not have a ten or we would have heard more from him on the flop. He could have a gutshot or 66 or some other equally ugly holding. I don't think he'd make a big move on the turn in a 3-way pot after all this action.

Sounds like a bet to me, you are probably ahead of button and HJ could fold here it sounds like.

you must bet-fold this turn. the problem is when hj calls and the river bricks off...

Yeah, I think this is 100% a bet on the turn. I think you can fold to a raise since its gotta be pretty tough to rasie here w/o a T (even A,10 should have to think about not raising since if I recall correctly you probably wouldn't cap J10 on this flop).

And as Mike said, it hurts when HJ calls turn bet casue river is tough. I think it is a check call if the river blanks. (maybe check fold if you have read on the HJ that he won't spazz off a bet without it).

it's a definite check-fold on the river esp. if hj seems pained in calling the turn.

Esp. too if he then shakes his head in disgust while betting the river.

I'm in agreement with betting the turn.

how often do you think HJ would check if you checked this turn to him?

Barron

Barron,

HJ checking behind is unlikely. He doesn't want to give a free card with any pocket pair below AA, or the unlikely, but not impossible holdings of A8 or K8s.

Hmm, CR the turn is hot.

-Diplomat

bet the turn and that is the last money you put into the pot if the hijack calls.

what do you guys think of checkraising the turn? it's the first thing i thought of. if HJ bets fishy button could call and then you pop it, you look so strong at that point HJ could fold a winner

I think a turn checkraise is both too expensive of a bluff and doesn't work often enough because the pot becomes so huge by then. What if HJ decides to peel with a pocket pair because he's getting 15-1 and figures you still might just be bluffing or betting a worse hand (ie he has KK and thinks you could have QQ)? It's not a totally unreasonable bluff, but does it work out for you twice as often? I doubt it.

And don't forget, the horrible button still could have something that beats you. And HE's not folding if he does.

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what do you guys think of checkraising the turn? it's the first thing i thought of. if HJ bets fishy button could call and then you pop it, you look so strong at that point HJ could fold a winner

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I agree, but whiffing leaves you in a very bad spot.

So, I decided to bet the turn and put the HJ to a decision. I figured if I checked the turn and faced a likely bet and call I'd end up being put in a spot where I have a marginal decision getting 11:1. However if the HJ raised my bet I figured there was a good enough chance he had a ten and the 14:1 pot odds wouldn't be good enough.

HJ raised, the button cold-called and I folded. The river was a blankish [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (maybe it made a straight possible), HJ bet, the button raised and HJ called. The button took it down with A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. HJ later told me he had KT.

HJ initially questioned my turn bet when we discussed the hand. I think I convinced him it was a better play than checking, and I was sure I could get all of you aggromonkeys to agree [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

What am I, a friggin' Mirage?

-Diplomat

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Hmm, CR the turn is hot.

-Diplomat

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ding, thats why i asked about HJ checking behind. if HJ wont check behind, it's sexy time imo.

Barron

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you must bet-fold this turn. the problem is when hj calls and the river bricks off...

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i dont think bet/fold is correct. i think when you get a card like that T where it is the exact kind of card that a) HJ is unlikely to have, b) allows you to look like you dont need a free card (and a free card wont hurt you against HJ anyways...i.e small cost of it), c) a free card is unlikely to be taken, and d) have a spot where HJ can't call looking for just a set (getting 13:1), you have the elements of exactly a turn c'r.

Barron