do you use effective M?
 

In case you don't know, effective M refers to your actual M and the number of players on your table.
It is calculated by:

M x (Number of players on table/10)
Note: edited this to read 10 instead of full no. of players

So, you have an M of 10 on the final table but it is now 5 handed. Your effective M is therefore:
10 x 5/10 = 5

This is supposed to indicate how aggressive you should be but it effectively turns 3xBB raise situations into pushes.

Does anyone actually use this? I really only see it happening when there's 2 tables left in an MTT just before players reach the final table...and then on the final table itself.

Re: do you use effective M?
 

Why does the size of a full table matter? Surely playing 5/6 is no different to playing 5/10.

Re: do you use effective M?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why does the size of a full table matter? Surely playing 5/6 is no different to playing 5/10.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you more aggressive at a 6 handed table than at a 10 handed table?...because you should be

Re: do you use effective M?
 

Yes, I use it.

It's important as it reflects how many hands you play if you were to just fold. An M of 10 at a full table is an M of 5 at a 5-handed table, because you would actually on play half the hands you would at a full table if you were folding everying. Your opportunities to get good hands are therefore halved.

Re: do you use effective M?
 

Most final tables then, possibly until you get to the last 3, should be all-in fests if everyone is playing to this strategy?

Re: do you use effective M?
 

M helps me keeping track of the urgency with which I need to play, not what types of plays I need to do. For that I still use multiples of BB. Besides, my playing frequency and aggression tend to increase naturally anyway at a short-handed table, simply by assuming a six-handed UTG hand being equal to a first-in MP hand at a full table

Re: do you use effective M?
 

I was just thinking about this recently. I do not use effective M for pushbotting. While effective M DOES tell me how desperate I am, it doesn't change the percentage that the blinds and antes will add to my stack. With antes I am only typically adding ~1.75 BB to my stack at a short handed table, so pushbotting with an effective M of 5 (adding 1.75BB to a 17.5BB stack) at a short table is less valuable than with a real M of 5 (adding 2BB to a 10BB stack) at a full table. So I am not pushing 15-20BB with a marginal hand just because we are short handed.

I AM however opening my range and playing a lot short handed. But since I'm normally opening light from late positions anyway, this is only natural. I just think of short tables as full tables where the first couple of people have already folded to me. With 15-20 BB I have enough to put pressure on the blinds PF without comitting my entire stack.

Re: do you use effective M?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why does the size of a full table matter? Surely playing 5/6 is no different to playing 5/10.

[/ QUOTE ]Size matters because with a low effective M you are in more danger of blind out than you appear. At a full table with an M of 10 You have 90 hands you'll be able to see before you are blinded out. This means you have to find a spot, but you've still got some time. With and M of 10 at a 6 person table, you are only going to see 60 more hands if you don't find a spot, so your situation is a little more dire. Especially given that the last 30 or so of these hands hardly count because you dont have any FE. If you are 4 handed, you have 40 more hands before you blind out.

Re: do you use effective M?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Most final tables then, possibly until you get to the last 3, should be all-in fests if everyone is playing to this strategy?

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess but it doesn't happen that way. Surviving when you have a small stack and there are other small/medium stacks that could go any time >>>>>>>>>> M play.

Re: do you use effective M?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why does the size of a full table matter? Surely playing 5/6 is no different to playing 5/10.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you more aggressive at a 6 handed table than at a 10 handed table?...because you should be

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but I'm no more or less aggressive playing 5-handed and a 6-max table than I am playing 5-handed at a 10-max table, which was my point about full table size.

Re: do you use effective M?
 

LOL, it is not the actual physical size of the table that matters. It is how many players there are actively playing at that table... [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: do you use effective M?
 

[ QUOTE ]
LOL, it is not the actual physical size of the table that matters. It is how many players there are actively playing at that table... [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly... and I see OP has now edited his post to replace "size of table" with 10, which makes more sense.

Re: do you use effective M?
 

I don't actually CALCULATE IT, but I certainly adjust as the table gets shorthanded.

An easy way to think about it (for newer players) is this - do not calculate your position from the blinds. Calculate it BACKWARDS from the button. This way when you are 5-handed and first to act preflop - your position is NOT UTG - it's actually hijack! Now think about what you would be opening / pushing from a hijack seat at a full table when folded to you and fire away with the same range (obv it also depends on how tight or loose the rest of the table is, etc., but you get the idea).

Re: do you use effective M?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't actually CALCULATE IT, but I certainly adjust as the table gets shorthanded.

An easy way to think about it (for newer players) is this - do not calculate your position from the blinds. Calculate it BACKWARDS from the button. This way when you are 5-handed and first to act preflop - your position is NOT UTG - it's actually hijack! Now think about what you would be opening / pushing from a hijack seat at a full table when folded to you and fire away with the same range (obv it also depends on how tight or loose the rest of the table is, etc., but you get the idea).

[/ QUOTE ]

HiJack???

Re: do you use effective M?
 

hijack = 1 to the right of CO

Re: do you use effective M?
 

CO???
No - just kidding
Thanks

Re: do you use effective M?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why does the size of a full table matter? Surely playing 5/6 is no different to playing 5/10.

[/ QUOTE ]

Per HOH2; because the blinds come around faster and you have less orbits until your stack is completely crippled.

Re: do you use effective M?
 

Less hands, relative strength of a hand goes up compared to 4 or 5 other holdings as opposed to a full table, where you have to weigh hand strength against 8-9 hands.

On probability, you can adjust your standards for a wider range of holdings.

Or less geeky explanation: 6-max is sexier for action junkies and LAGs. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: do you use effective M?
 

A few things to consider in these situations:

At the later stages of a tournament it's often not necessary to raise 3x in order to steal blinds as a lot of players are playing much tighter than they should. Making smaller raises also commits you less to calling pushes from shortstacks when you are raising with less than premium hands. Obviously there are some times where you're glad to call a push from a shortstack but it lets you be more selective rather than pricing yourself into a bunch of marginal situations. Many players will raise in the area of 2.5x-2.7x the big blind instead of a full 3x.

Resteals and squeeze plays are very valuable and effective moves at this stage of many tournaments because of how tight everyone plays. You can pickup a lot of dead money like this and, while it is a higher risk move, it also has a higher reward as you often pickup 4-5bb which can be a significant amount of your stack this late in the game. A lot of bad players realize the need to open up their game and raise with more hands but their calling ranges for their tournament lives are still very tight. This is often a great way to double your stack without showing down a single hand.

It can also help to get you paid off big with a monster hand as, if you've made this move a few times recently and then pickup a huge hand and make the same play you may get looked up this partciular time resulting in a huge payoff due to the image you have created for yourself.

Just food for thought....