40-80 River Decision
 

Not a biggie, but I witnessed this hand last night in a Commerce 40-80 game and a few 2+2ers had some disagreement about the river.

You raise my big blind from MP with a hand that includes a King. The player on your immediate left, easily the fishiest, loosest player in the game, cold-calls. All this means is that she has two cards. (And even that's not definite.) She'll play virtually anything and will continue on indefinitely, sometimes passively, sometimes aggressively, with a piece of the board or with the hope of catching a piece of the board.

Button 3-bets, everyone else folds, you call and fishy calls.

Flop comes K-K-T rainbow. Checked to the button, who bets, you check-raise, fishy player cold-calls, and button now folds.

Turn is a blank. You bet, she calls.

River is a T. Check or bet?

Re: 40-80 River Decision
 

bet

Re: 40-80 River Decision
 

button was in there and 3 bet preflop and three people saw the flop. then hero c/red the flop and the fish called two cold and button folded (or called and folded the turn). the rest of the action is right.

Re: 40-80 River Decision
 

Is that right? I really must have stayed up too late last night. Thanks, Mike, I changed the post to reflec the correct action.

Re: 40-80 River Decision
 

seems like the type of player not worth embarassing.

Re: 40-80 River Decision
 

[ QUOTE ]
seems like the type of player not worth embarassing.

[/ QUOTE ]

bet.

Re: 40-80 River Decision
 

why not just bet because she will call with A or Q hi or pocket 7's but not bet those same hands...also the point about not c/r a huge fish seems reasonable...

plus if she has a T you might get to 3bet her...

Re: 40-80 River Decision
 

[ QUOTE ]
why not just bet because she will call with A or Q hi or pocket 7's but not bet those same hands...also the point about not c/r a huge fish seems reasonable...

plus if she has a T you might get to 3bet her...

[/ QUOTE ]

i really don't think she calls with 7-high

i bet as well

Re: 40-80 River Decision
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why not just bet because she will call with A or Q hi or pocket 7's but not bet those same hands...also the point about not c/r a huge fish seems reasonable...

plus if she has a T you might get to 3bet her...

[/ QUOTE ]

i really don't think she calls with 7-high


[/ QUOTE ]

she sounds like the type who will not understand that she has 7 high with 77.

Re: 40-80 River Decision
 

[ QUOTE ]
bet

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 40-80 River Decision
 

"she sounds like the type who will not understand that she has 7 high with 77. "

this is what i meant in my earlier post...not sure if its true of this person, but im sure we have all seen stranger things...

Re: 40-80 River Decision
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
seems like the type of player not worth embarassing.

[/ QUOTE ]

bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems like very good live game reasoning.

Re: 40-80 River Decision
 

[ QUOTE ]
seems like the type of player not worth embarassing.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is interesting that this was one of the only points not brought up when we all discussed the hand at dinner. Although it is a good point in general, these commerce regulars are pretty immune to embarrassment. So for the sake of the argument, let's go ahead and accept that this won't change the way the villian plays, the frequency with which the villian plays, or anything else for that matter. Let's also assume that the hero in this case has a well established, hard earned, and clearly defined table brat image with his huge chip stack and overall behavior. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: 40-80 River Decision
 

I'm definitely betting this. I played a lot of live L.A. poker this weekend and saw so many people calling double-paired boards with crap. At best she probably has AJ or AQ and will call. Maybe even QJ, Q9, etc. Like Bob said, she doesn't realize three pair is a counterfeit, so any pockets and she'll call.

But the other reason for betting is because there are lots of hands she won't bet for you. Passive crappy players check with a T here, because they love to call but they hate getting checkraised, and you might have a K. I really don't like checking this river.

Re: 40-80 River Decision
 

in my opinion your best way to get more money in the pot is to bet , hope she has a piece of it and either calls or raises you.

Re: 40-80 River Decision
 

I won't reiterate my points Andy since we already went over it. I will share with you and everyone else the funniest line of the weekend that I just remembered now while I was thinking over this hand at the gym.

We were in the car talking about this hand and all agreed that the only real way to know the correct play in retrospect was to see her hand. That is when your friend and mine, mike l, clarified the situaion as only he can by saying: "Oh yeah that is easy. You just say "I missed" and pause until she turns up her hand and then table your hand, giggle and then add "my checkraise". Awesome.

Re: 40-80 River Decision
 

I am surprised no one else has said bet bc betting is the only way to get 3 bets in on river. From the sound of villian it seems like she may even raise if she has a ten. Also you said sometimes passive sometimes aggressive, she hasnt shown any aggression so I guess she is in passive mode.

Re: 40-80 River Decision
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am surprised no one else has said bet bc betting is the only way to get 3 bets in on river. From the sound of villian it seems like she may even raise if she has a ten. Also you said sometimes passive sometimes aggressive, she hasnt shown any aggression so I guess she is in passive mode.

[/ QUOTE ]

reread the thread please [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: 40-80 River Decision
 

One hand against me, she had either limped in or called from the blind when I raised with A-J. She had Q-6o and on the river, when the board was A-7-6--2-Q (or somesuch), she check-called. Yet I was told that she had previously raised the river on two occasions, been called, and mucked without folding.

Re: 40-80 River Decision
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am surprised no one else has said bet bc betting is the only way to get 3 bets in on river. From the sound of villian it seems like she may even raise if she has a ten. Also you said sometimes passive sometimes aggressive, she hasnt shown any aggression so I guess she is in passive mode.

[/ QUOTE ]

reread the thread please [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
ooops